Value reduction for non matching dino gt?

I am looking at a dino gt that has a non matching motor and has had a color change. How much does this affect the value? I had one person tell me 8% and another tell me 33%. That is quite a spread.

Thank you for your comments

 

Do you really know that the engine # does not match? What is the SN and engine number? From that we should be able to tell you the original color. I'm glad to see that you are asking questions. There are a lot of very smart people on this forum to help you.

 

I do not believe that non-orignal colour will affect value at all provided that the car is painted in a period correct colour for that year of Dino. I have not really found any historical pricing data to contradict this however some people prefer original colour while others don't care. Cars are rare enough that if you hold out for condition AND correct colour that you will be waiting a LONG time. Most will buy on condition.

As for the non-matching engine that is a really tough one with no clear cut answer. I know that some people aren't too bothered while for others it is a total deal breaker. It is a stronger issue than the colour so you can be sure that there is some deduction for a non matching car. I truly believe that the number can never be said as a percentage or even a range but for sure a non matching car is worth less when it comes time to sell.

 

The engine #'s don't match the chassis number. Are you certain that it doesn't have a matching engine? My bigger concern would be is it the correct type of engine rather than a number issue. The reduction in price will be nominal. Who ever said 33% is crazy.

With Dino values spread across the board right now, this is going to hard to peg a price on without knowing more info about the specific car

 

Condition of the car will swing it more than original engine, assuming it's the correct type of course. You're already off the top of the market since engine mileage is now unknown.

Have you checked the gearbox number and type?
If it's the original gearbox then I'd factor in less discount, however if it matches the replacement engine then that might actually be better for you depending on what it came out of and how you feel about it.
If you provide numbers then several people here can tell to a close degree what is original or where it might have come from.
Andrew

 

+1, its just my view, but a non matching dino would have a much smaller % hit than a 250 series car where all the numbers match.

 

Twenty years ago when purchasing a Dino or Daytona, I gave no hit on value if the engine number did not match the assembly records. Both the Dino and Daytona obviously used their own chassis number sequence and a different sequence for engine as well as gearbox numbers.

This started to change dramatically circa 2000 or so as online information exchange and data bases started tracking and making information readily available to new buyers, owners and sellers alike.

Both Daytona and Dino buyers started asking for confirmations on chassis / engine numbers in far greater numbers from that point forward. From 2004-2005 on with Ferrari Classiche having more and more of an influence on sales we started being very careful about confirming that vehicles had their born with components and as with the older "matching number" series of earlier Ferraris, big discounts were given on a car that did not have its original engine. The old ratios of 1/3rd for chassis, 1/3rd for body and 1/3rd for drivetrain now apply very clearly on Dino's and Daytonas to the point that we will most often pass if one does not have all three major components as delivered new.

Other's might feel otherwise but as a check writer and frequent seller of such machines, I believe my statements are not only factual but fully backed up by nearly hundred or so documented sales and purchases over the pas six to seven years.

Ciao,

Bill

 

I agree with Bill's sentiments. For sure today a car with non matching numbers is less desirable and therefore worth less. If I was buying a car as a short term 'enjoyable investment' this is for sure a consideration. If I was buying the car because I loved it and wanted to have it a long time while accumulating a lot of mileage then I would care less. Everyone is different but I am sure some generalizations can be reached.

 

It´s an individual decision.
I would choose a Dino in the not original (Dino) Color I like,
than a Dino in the original Color I don´t like.
And who from us knows which would be the original Engine No.
to a Dino to buy (except maybe Matthias)?

 

Maybe a few more of us ;-)
But of course Ferrari Classiche knows and so everyone is able to know if he wants to, and that's the point Bill Noon stated out.
Non matching engine on a 246 in Europe is a minus of 15 per cent and more, says the market.

 

I would be carefull with any absolute statement .
When I was less experienced I used to take care to this matching number importance also for Dinos because this is what I was hearing from some people. After spending enough time in restoration and engine machining shops I realized how many blocks and heads are affected by high corrosion and weakened by all kind of impossible soldering and sleeeving in a desperate try to save their original numbers and not risk a possible decrease in the value of the car, while replacements in much better original conditions were still availble, even if expensive.
I also understood that it was not impossible to perfectly restamp/fake the numbers on the block (no internal numbers here) .
In the end this interest of few people in numbers was producing more damages than advantages in the preservation of our cars. Historic associations, concours and also certificators like Classiche are well aware of that and no one will deduct point or refuse certification for engines or transmission non matching the original assembly records (that, by the way, are most of the time but not always correct, also considering that occasionally engines-transmissions were replaced by Ferrari during guarantee period or shortly after without amending the records).
Of course all that provided that original engine model is correct as it should (exactly like everything else on the car where you replace parts as long as they are the same as originals).

Best,
Emanuele
SDT

 

This is an interesting discussion. I can understand the collectibility and desire for "matching numbers" especially since we are focused on the Dino and many of us may have "too" much Dino knowledge. If you step back to the first time you saw a Dino, read about it or maybe even experienced it. Did matching #'s matter? If you came across a Stratos for the right price would it matter? How about a 356 Speedster? A 250SWB? My point is, I like many of you put a premium value on matching #'s but I wouldn't NOT consider a great Dino for the right price w/o matching #'s. In some ways it liberates you! Paint it the color you want, modify the motor to Stratos specs etc etc.

Freeman

 

Freeman, You are so right. I was 23 when I bought my girl *04022* back in April in 1984. I thought it looked so much better than the more popular 308s at the time. To this day, I still think it is one of the most beautiful cars. I am lucky enough to have owned what is turning out to be a true original car... down to stickers, etc. It still need a super quality restoration and a documeted history (which I am working on finding back to May 1972).....that is in the works. btw, any help is appreciated... no joke on *04022*.
I hope that some day I can confirm all my numbers, but things look good so far.

These cars are beautiful in any case. Enjoy!!! Colors right or wrong, numbers right or wrong. I love these cars.
Cheers,
Bob

 

i cant imagine someone in the market for a 155k dino, is willing to spend 135-140 for a non - matching dino - i dont buy it - the 1/3 factor is very much in play upon resale-

 

What if it was less than $135K? Or less than $125K?

Freeman

 

it all depends on condition then, your level of a good car, may not be the same as someone elses.

if all things being equal - a tired dino is 130, and a tired non matching is 110 - its then a personal preference, for me personally, 110 and 30 is not a large leap enough to go for the non matching car - its all relative in the end.

as they old saying goes - you only need one buyer

 

In the Porsche world, a 356A pushrod, Carrera or Speedster doesn't take a big price hit when not matching #'s. A 911S does, a Carrera RS only a bit. Has more to do with condition and history. Since a Dino only had one model, wouldn't it be more important that the motor is from the correct series and condition? I agree I would put a different value on a #'s matching example but truly would consider a non-matching Dino if priced attractively. I would be more concerned that the chassis number was legit.

Freeman

 

I wish I could get a copy of my build sheet to do a full documentation of my car. Unfortunately, I seems out of my reach....$$$s wise. This is just me... make sure it is the correct engine/gearbox/body numbers for the year/SN#. I wish I could get my build sheet to check that ALL NUMBERS on my car match the factory history. You are not looking at a seven/eight figure Ferrari that must exactly match the build history. Enjoy, the Dino and make sure you have things correct. I do not know how many guys/gals have their build sheets to check all the numbers anyhow. Just one guy's opinion... Dinos are not multi-million dollar cars so if it's period correct, simply enjoy. These are beautiful cars.

 

Some of us are Dino spotting anoraks. Numerical data on Dinos extrapolates amazingly well between cars so you can get pretty close to matching components.
Andrew

 

Thank you everyone for your responses.

I looked at the car today. The seller was very reputable and informed me that it was not numbers matching and pointed out things that the car needed. The price was reasonable, but I decided to keep looking for a car that's restored to a higher level.

If anyone knows of any coupes for sale, please let me know.

 

Just for understanding, what does the seller mean "not numbers matching"? Does he/she mean that it does not match the build sheet numbers or that it does not match the period numbers? It doesn't have a "Furd or Cheby" (sic) motor does it?

Let us help. What are the numbers? You should be able to get the chassis (or VIN), body number (different from the VIN), engine type # (like "135 cs 000"), actual engine #, gearbox #. Ask the seller for this info. These are the basics. After that, you need to start looking at all the other little stuff that makes the car "right". I was even checking my car for the marking on the door marker lights the other day. I still need to take things apart to see the markings on the windshield washer water pump.......the list goes on. I think my wife is going to kick me out of the house for being so obsessed... just joking. She actually was helping me do the documentation on my car with pictures, etc.

 

In about 1988 Denny Schue told me Ferrari did not keep a record of what engine went into each car.
Was he wrong?

 

That is a very good question. I never could be a build sheet for my car. Now, with this info, I don't know if it will help with my research project if there are no records of SN of components for each specific car. Hopefully, somebody can confirm.

 

Sorry for the fat finger situation and cut/paste problems with my last message. I was trying to say that I CAN NOT FIND specific information on my car. I am still interested in learning how we can find out this information for all us Dino owners.

 

Records do exist of the engine #, gearbox #, and body # that were matched to each chassis #