I received this: "Did you hear that Leventis sold #844 and bought #858?" I also heard from a different source that 0858 was heading to Piper to be fitted with a "P4" Body. Not sure just reporting. As an aside 0858's original spyder tail is now on 0846.
Question: Why not preserve #0858 in its current state, an original CanAm car? Why convert it to a P4?
If I owned it, I would return it to the original P4 configuration, even though it has been in CanAm configuration since 67, and Id use it on the roads as well as classic race. Perhaps David Piper will be putting an original P4 body on it? Like 0860, it was/is a P4. They can be returned, as Pierre Bardinon chose to. Perhaps Ferrari (current administration) wont view it like that regarding title, but does that matter? To some yes, to others no. Many Ferraris have reappeared from little more than ashes, to be given full title and official recognition and significant value to boot. What is correct and what isnt? Owner chooses.
0858's not a P4 it's a 350 Can Am. 0860 is not a P4 it's a 350 Can Am with a replica P4 body. It's original P4 body is on David's "0900". Putting a replica P4 body on a 350 Can Am doesn't magically make it a 330 P4. 350 Can Am's have modified chassis (Modified by Ferrari as 0846's P3 chassis was modified by Ferrari to accept a P4 engine thus P 3/4 ) They also have modified engines and many other modifications. There is a big difference in Ferrari modifying a car in period than an owner creating something that never existed: A "350 P4". I agree that owners should and do make themselves happy but I also think it's VERY important that there's full disclosure so that the truth doesn't get lost in the fog of time. 0844 is a 330 Can Am that years later was fitted with a replica 412P body by Symbolic. This reversion so far as I know was a lot easier as it's engine remained 330. Although some have called it a P3 it's not. Ferrari converted P3 0844 into a 412P, P3 0846 into a P 3/4 and P3 0848 into a 412P. No P3's were ever sold nor do any P3's exist today. (0850 and 0854 were originally built as 412P's and remain so today) As for driving P4's on the street while it can be done their mechanical FI makes that less than ideal and a 412P with it's carburetors is a lot more road friendly. I bid on 0858 and Walter declined and the price paid for 0858 recently shows he was right to decline. If I had bought it I would have kept it as as 350 Can Am but the new owner wants it clothed as a "P4" spyder and I'm sure he doesn't care what I would have done nor frankly should he. Cheers
Being ignorant on the different "P" cars, I would like to learn a bit. Could someone post pictures of the P-3, P-4, 412P, 350 Can-Am? Also, any of their "derivatives". Back in the 70s, I met a fellow who had just purchased a yellow P car, owned at one time by Dean Martin's son. If memory serves me, he had it converted back to the original configuration (P 3/4?) Where is it now? Also, there is a man in PA who ownes a Can-Am car but I'm not sure of its designation. I've seen it but know nothing about it. Help, anyone? Bob Z.
+1 Manfred Lampe had a 512S but even that took a back seat to the great noise on track made by the Can-Am Ferrari! The word 'loud' seems inadequate... CH
As previously stated, opinions are worth pretty much nothing. Im going to give mine anyways. I cant see the logic of doing a rebody on this car. It was modified in period by Ferrari. If it had been redone in the 80s or 90s or something I could see returning it to original, but as it sits its as original as its ever going to be. If they chop it up and make something new it is a bastardized pile mismatched parts, which is very sad because it wont ever be the same. Again, just my opinion.
No they very clearly stated to me that it's a 350 Can Am. If converted to a "P4" they very clearly stated it would not be able to get a Classiche Certificate but would instead be classified as "A Ferrari of Historical Interest". As an aside that's how they view The Breadvan: "A Ferrari of Historical Interest". Ferrari was very clear about this.
0850 as mentioned in yellow> credits> B. Shorey Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thanks for your insight. I totally agree that full disclosure is essential, but it will never be applied across the board. So many of the important cars are hidden for so long, who knows what happens over the years regarding getting wrecked and rebuilt, etc. I do realise that many changes were made to go from P4 to CanAm, it would take serious dedication (like you demonstrate) to return the car to P4 spec, minus some of the quirks like fuel in the chassis tubes! As we agree, its personal choice. If I were the lucky owner of one of the Giorgio Moroni 250 TRs I certainly wouldnt have left the in period Drogo re-body on simply because they imo were hideous, if however they were stunning I wouldnt return them to pontoon as I dont like that look. A balance of aesthetics? I can only dream ;o)
Originally water and oil flowed through the chassis. They still do on 0854 and 0846 but it is a massive amount of work to keep/restore that flow. I don't disagree about the Drogo TR rebody and 002 doesn't still have it's Motto rebody but in this case this is a pretty original 350 Can Am and once that's changed there won't be any original 350 Can Am's left.
#0844, after the conversion to CanAm car in 1967. #0844, after the conversion to Berlinetta (Le Mans Classic 2007 - ©Claude Foubert). This car was original during 40 years. Question: what is left of the original car today ? Question: same future for #0858 ? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Those P3/P4 bodies come as close to absolute perfecrion as is possible. The only real competition would be the 250GTO.I can fully understand the temptation to rebody 0858 to its original and with money no object there are several ways to accomplish this. Maybe Jim would like to undertake the effort. If so the complete Can Am body should be kept as orriginal and displayed with 0844 where ever it goes. A portable display stand can be created and the combined show would be spectacular. just one mans opinion tongascrew
Symbolic never rebodied 0844. Where did this come from??? I was there. I helped source the remains of another of Pipers P-car body bits in pieces out of South Africa. I am in Monterey but upon my return will see what I have in my photos and notes on what exactly we did. When we got it, 0844's body was exactly as last raced in the Can Am configuration as shown above. Prior to that the car was exactly as last raced in the 1967 Season. I drove it regularly on the street in both Can Am and later after fitting the roof area back on. The car was converted to "Can Am" configuration in a single morning and consisted solely of chopping the windshield, roof and sail panels down. No other mods were maid. The car was tested that afternoon. The conversion and initial test took just one day! The only goal was to lighten the car and give the driver better visibility. We had a new windshield blown and refitted the A pillars and B-Sail panel roof assembly back to the car. The nose, doors, deck lid etc... were all original to the car circa 1966-7. This was the second Ferrari I encountered in the same year that had two engines stamped with the same number. (So much for the myth of one engine, one number one car!) More later when I can. Bill
Bill Look again at 0844's Cam Am nose and get back to us. Not a rebody? The Roof, A pillars, side windows, windshield, nose aren't a rebody? Converting 0844 from a 330 Can Am to a 412P isn't a rebody? Do show me the light... http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=140892492&postcount=17 These two noses are the same??? If not a rebody why did the guys caring for 0844 tell me they still had 0844's original Can Am Body? Is what they told me not true? Did you reshape 0844's Can AM Nose back to 412P? "No other mods were maid. The car was tested that afternoon. The conversion and initial test took just one day!" The nose was change in one day by Ferrari? Fast work. "The car was converted to "Can Am" configuration in a single morning and consisted solely of chopping the windshield, roof and sail panels down." How about the NACA inlet on inner left fender? The the same as the 412P fender? "soley"??? Perhaps these photographs of Can Am and 412P Noses of 0844 will help... Signed Confused Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
It'll be interesting to see what Piper does, with all the facts "out there". He could well 'disappear" it into his stock of parts!! I agree it's going to be very hard to make that motor "smaller" again....also a shame it's the 'last' of the 330/350 Can Am series cars.
#0844 (n°25) & #0846 (n°20) - Le Mans 1967. #0844 (n°1) - Virginia raceway 1968 (©Roger Blanchard). Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I think it would be a massive loss if 0858 was converted back into a P4, most of its history in the hands of Paul Hawkins was with it in Can Am form. Its Can Am identity give it a very unique history all of its own and arguably a rather unique beauty too. To me it would be worth more in Can Am form than P4 form though I guess I may be in the minority here...
