Countach, the ultimate supercar | Page 428 | FerrariChat
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Countach, the ultimate supercar

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by joe sackey, Aug 21, 2007.

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  1. Countachqv

    Countachqv Formula 3

    Apr 25, 2007
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    #10676 Countachqv, Oct 16, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    not to drill on something that has been established but since it seemed that it was not obvious for everyone at some point, that the 400S1 dimensions are different overall that of the later body, we took adavantage to finally look for ourselves.
    we did not do all the car, that will be later. but the door dimensions is quite different. 12" for the 400s1 lower section and 14" for the Qv
    By standing next to both and really looking you can even see it.
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  2. stlouis

    stlouis Karting

    Oct 7, 2007
    183
    #10677 stlouis, Oct 16, 2011
    Nice to post it.

    There were a couple of exchanges on the dimensions, here, in this topic, but it's not that obvious to find it back !

    Looking forward to see a few other comparisons.
     
  3. 2aftercannonball

    2aftercannonball Formula Junior

    Sep 23, 2006
    459
    #10678 2aftercannonball, Oct 16, 2011
    Mike, wish I knew about that. The boys and I were in town this weekend. We did stop by Roy's place and as we pulled in there was the LP400 sitting proudly out front, very nice!
     
  4. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #10679 joe sackey, Oct 16, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thank you SO much for taking the time to reinforce, once again, that even the people who some use as a factory 'source' (not naming any names ~ this difference has been denied by that & other factory sources at least once) often espouse erroneous information, perhaps not intentionally, but, erroneous information nonetheless. This, and many other Lamborghini Miura & Countach myths have been dispelled over the past 15 years or so by the hard work of owners & enthusiasts who care to do more than just assume the 'head-in-the-sand' mentality of "if I haven't seen it for myself then it cannot be so". Sadly, the latter group of rather less-than-open-minded individuals includes people who make a living off the cars. This is exactly the reason that I have always strived to archive anything & everything I can get my hands on regarding Lamborghini Miuras & Countachs, and have made photographic documentation of the cars a priority. Photographic documentation always speaks for itself. Often too, the information has already been received & corroborated but is proprietary so it has not been disclosed in the typical venues, so just because it has not been posted somewhere, dont assume the received wisdom is not known. We all know that the cause of so many myths & confusion is Lamborghini's own lack of data recording. My not inconsiderable library of information serves only one purpose: to be shared with all like-minded individuals in the venue of this thread, and ultimately as a book as we did with www.joesackey.com/the-lamborghini-miura-bible/
    Lastly, in thinking about this subject, we have to have a sense of humor, so the words of the great Groucho Marx come to mind: "Who you gonna believe, me or your own eyes?"
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  5. Peter K.

    Peter K. F1 Rookie
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    #10680 Peter K., Oct 16, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  6. NSXER

    NSXER Formula 3

    Jan 4, 2004
    1,307
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    #10681 NSXER, Oct 16, 2011
    Correct...even the rear fender dimensions. I put all the dimensions in CAD.

    Brian
     
  7. BlueBiturbo

    BlueBiturbo F1 Rookie

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    #10682 BlueBiturbo, Oct 16, 2011
    Wow... I learn new things everyday. Thanks.
     
  8. smglop

    smglop Formula Junior

    Sep 25, 2005
    512
    #10683 smglop, Oct 17, 2011
    Anyone know what the expense was for the factory to change these dimensions? Tooling up for this must have been huge. Considering all the stories of the company's lack of funds, it's hard to see why they would do this.
     
  9. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
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    #10684 2NA, Oct 17, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
    Considering the relatively small number of cars being made and the hand-built nature of the car, it seems it was probably relatively easy to make changes. Some new tooling would need to be fabricated, methods tested and prototypes built, but nothing like making a change to a contemporary car with it's hundreds of stamped and molded parts.

    Manufacturers typically like to introduce "NEW" and "IMPROVED". ;)

    Apparently the costs seemed worthwhile at the time.
     
  10. EarlyCat

    EarlyCat Moderator
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    Mar 9, 2005
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    #10685 EarlyCat, Oct 17, 2011
    $$$Increasing their market. Yep, the reasons for the upgrade or change had to be from the tight interior. Far too many have sat in one, only to find out they don't fit. I would have made the floor boards a little lower first, but maybe they tried that.
     
  11. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #10686 joe sackey, Oct 17, 2011
    Bear in mind that the changes to the LP400S coincided with Patrick Mimran's involvement with the factory and the formation of Nuova Automobili Ferruccio Lamborghini SpA in January 1981. One of the first decisions was to hire engineer Giulio Alfieri as the company's technical director. The injection of capital by the Mimran family finally made it possible to resume some development work on the Countach, and increasing the cockpit space and panel size (albeit very minimally) was the first order of business. These cars became what we are now referring to as the LP400S Series 3. I'll have to check but of the top off my head I want to say that the first of the S3 cars was 1121312 built in 1981..

    To address your comment about lack of funds, that period was 1979 & 1980, when the company was in dire financial straights and all the cars were being built on a cash-to-order basis only. In 1980, it was universally predicted that Lamborghini was doomed.

    FWIW, Alfieri's next order of business was the increase in displacement of the classic 12-cylinder engine, which became known as the Countach 5000S of 1982. I think Patrick Mimran kept one of the prototypes of that variant and Armin Johl got the first customer example.

    Hope this helps...
     
  12. smglop

    smglop Formula Junior

    Sep 25, 2005
    512
    #10687 smglop, Oct 17, 2011
    Of course this helps, thank you.

    Was the decision based more on interior room or ground clearance? I remember Jim Heady years ago talking me out of buying the black Anderson car because of all the trouble he had getting up his driveway with a similar car. I always shied away from those early cars because I was made to believe they were just too low. Could that have been the major complaint do you think or just one of many?
     
  13. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #10688 joe sackey, Oct 17, 2011
    For sure they received complaints about cockpit room and wanted to improve that a little, but I think I read somewhere (I forget where) that bumper-height & ground-clearance laws in Germany or Switzerland from 1981 onwards had something to do with raising the height of the cars.

    Perhaps Raymond can shed some light here?
     
  14. stlouis

    stlouis Karting

    Oct 7, 2007
    183
    #10689 stlouis, Oct 18, 2011
  15. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran

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    #10690 EMILIO, Oct 18, 2011
    the low roof is an issue only if you are over 180cm tall

    but ground clearance is an issue on many driveways and some roads
    to me that was the major issue of the car
     
  16. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran

    Feb 23, 2006
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    #10691 EMILIO, Oct 18, 2011
  17. smglop

    smglop Formula Junior

    Sep 25, 2005
    512
    #10692 smglop, Oct 18, 2011
    Lots of feelings of regret for such a petty reason. Did the same with an F40 and 288 GTO.
    Wouldn't happen nowadays with these threads and great people to get advice from.
     
  18. abolfaz

    abolfaz Formula Junior

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    #10693 abolfaz, Oct 18, 2011

    Lol.

     
  19. Peter K.

    Peter K. F1 Rookie
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    #10694 Peter K., Oct 18, 2011
    This is why when I hear " factory source" "contact" I won't pay attention to you guys. I believe Chad was told this because others on here have stated the "factory source" and were wrong on other things.
    I believe the factory was so f'd up during the Countach years that even they don't know what they did. Also, they seem to care less that they don't have what Joe has for history and paperwork.
    Valentino seems to be the only one from the factory that gets emotional with a Countach.


    Rant over.
     
  20. abolfaz

    abolfaz Formula Junior

    Feb 1, 2005
    439
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    #10695 abolfaz, Oct 18, 2011
    Anyone know where 1121054 ended up and what condition it's in today?
     
  21. roytoy2003

    roytoy2003 F1 Veteran

    Jul 30, 2004
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    Roy L. Cats
    #10696 roytoy2003, Oct 18, 2011
    Could not agree more..I dont give 5 cents to any thing "told" or a "story"....for me there is only ONE source I rely on ..

    What Valentino tell's me that he saw with his OWN eyes and what HE KNOWS as fact as he was there and can recall and tell's of it...and some times he just does not recall..in those rare cases I would only accept actual printed material know as documents from the "Factory", as rare and far between that they are.
     
  22. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #10697 joe sackey, Oct 18, 2011
    Peter,

    That's about the reality of the situation.

    I think that discerning what happened in the period takes corroboration of a combination of 4 things:

    1 - Period images, such as those taken around the works by the late Peter Coltrin ~ in some instances I have purchased entire archives of his images from the current copyright holder.
    2 - Period documentation, such as I have only ever received directly from the files of owners who bought cars new.
    3 - Witness testimony of new-car owners, and factory workers in combination.
    4 - The cars themselves. I mean, they often, especially in unmodified original form, speak for themselves.

    I think that in many cases you have to put all that together to determine what happened.

    I should also state that even an ex-factory or current factory source can remember things incorrectly, because it is all based on what they remember (without period pics or docs), and this has unfortunately been proven in the last 10-15 years or so.
     
  23. ferrari1

    ferrari1 Rookie
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    #10698 ferrari1, Oct 18, 2011
    I have owned them. They have horrible visability, are hot, handle poorly and this is exactly why Lambo has no race history. the contach is a bling machine for those with a real inferiority complex, its not a real race engineered car. They are like a decked out caddy, only in the shape of a wedge. seriously do not buy one.
     
  24. ApexOversteer

    ApexOversteer F1 Veteran

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    #10699 ApexOversteer, Oct 18, 2011
    **Yawn**

    Haven't had this posted in a while. Gotta love when the children have internet access.
     
  25. BlueBiturbo

    BlueBiturbo F1 Rookie

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    #10700 BlueBiturbo, Oct 18, 2011
    LOL
     
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