RB8 behind the game?

The rules are going to be so similar next year that there won't be as much work needed to be done on the cars. Red Bull already has the best car by far and therefore has the best platform to start with. Its not like the Red Bull is all of a sudden going to become a bad car.

 

According to Newey himself, the entire RB7 was designed around the EBD. If that is the case, with that going away, the RB8 may in fact require a significant re-design.

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/7247444/Newey-Diffuser-ban-may-halt-Bull-s-charge

 

I wouldn't read too much into Newey not attending races. Both championships are settled so he may as well put all of his focus on next year's car. Or maybe he's just not a fan of curry...

 

Wishfull thinking John...

 

I think Silverstone was the closest test of what next year would be like with this years' cars. And as a reminder, Redbull still qualified 1 & 2, 1.4 seconds faster than the quickest McLaren


I think they still have a fine base to build off of

 

+1 and Mclaren were all the talk after Japan and were now equal, almost to Red Bull in the press post Japan. How far back was LH at 1 point? Over 10 seconds and we know, Vettel was not even pushing by then. There is no team in the paddock close to Red Bull over race pace, occasionally on 1 lap but not by much even then.

Id say they have a superb basis to win at least 1 title if not both next year. Newey and Co. have had alot of time to digest the rules change in respect to the EBD. More than enough to compensate. Honestly they just need a better KERS. They have good aero/downforce/brakes. Its a tight well oiled package.

Lets throw some Brit press on that fire of Red Bull being the TEAM for next year

http://planetf1.com/race-features/7246974/PF1-s-Conclusions-From-Korea

 

I wouldn't count on it. It is way too early to speculate what will happen next season. However, IMO, RBR is now a major player in F1, especially with Newey onboard. It is one thing to catch up to RBR and it is another to leapfrog them. I suspect that 2012 will be (Hopefully for Ferrari) more competitive but to overtake RBR and Vettel, we will just have to wait and see.

 

As I've been saying for a while, F1 fans are very fickle and our memories barely extend a few races, let alone a few seasons.

Look back at 1994. The Ferrari was so dominant that there was talk that Schumi might win every single race that year. MS and Rubens had almost as many points between them as the rest of the top 10 put together.

And the next year, the Ferrari was horrible. Schumi had less than half the points of the WDC winner, and even MS and RB together had 30 points less than Alonso.

People chalk it up to the tire change rule, but that's not the case. Firstly, Ferrari was working closely with Bridgestone. They changed the tires for everyone - Ferrari was much better suited to meet that challenge than anyone else. They had a tire manufacturer working solely for them, and they had their own test track. And furthermore, MS suffered 6 DNF's that year - which was nothing to with the tires. The car was just a dog.


Fortunes can change very quickly in F1. It doesn't take the rest of the pack all that long to meet and exceed the competition. Newey isn't omnipotent as some think... he has been beaten plenty of times before - by Renault, McLaren, Ferrari and Honda. He is perfectly capable of producing a dog of a car.

It was not very long ago that RBR was as renowned as Force India is today. And it was not much before that when Williams were considered unbeatable and that they would never move from the top of the grid.

I would not be surprised at all of RBR struggles the same way Mercedes has this year. McLaren, Ferrari and Mercedes are all due for a good year. Renault too, for that matter. I don't think RBR will take the WDC or WCC next year. We shall see.

 

Every year is a crapshoot but discount RB and Newey at your peril.
The rules so proscribe design that the cars are quite similar and the smallest of advantages can be hard to overcome.

 

1994 = 2004 ?

Schumacher did not arrive at Ferrari until 1996.

 

Nope.

I'm probably the biggest Alonso fan there is but he won the 2005 championship because of the tire rule change. Bernie saw the TV audience numbers go down because people got bored with MS winning race after race and title after title. 2004 was insanely boring as the Ferraris just took off into the distance. Bernie exerted pressure on the FIA and the FIA knew well that a change in the tire rules would tip the balance towards Michelin's favor. And so they did.

Of course it helped that the Renault finally reached the top of its level and Alonso was a super strong championship driver. But without the tire rule change, I doubt that he would have won the title.

As for next year:
It'll be another RedBull/Vettel title (injury not withstanding). The game will change once we have a new engine rule, but not before then.

 

The RB7 is definitely not a one trick pony. what AN is saying is that the RB7 is designed with EBD as part of the car, not around the EBD. (this is unlike how Mclaren design their MP4-25 around the F-duct)

With the EBD banned next years, ALL the front runners will be affected, not just RB7. But I do think that RBR will have an advantage over the rest because RB7 (an evolution of WCC RB6) is a already a fundamentally brilliant car and they will have a very strong base to start for RB8.

Ferrari on the other hand will be coming out with a completely new chassis and aero design, so all the parameters will be unknown, including their simulators, CFD, wind tunnel and the dynamics between the new car and the Pirelli tires.


Somehow I got this feeling that RBR dominance over the last few years is down to not just AN brilliance, but also the engine fuel and heat efficiency, which give AN the flexibility to package "kinky kylie" with a tight back end and also run them with lighter fuel load at the start.

How many time have we seen Mclaren and Ferrari running into fuel shortage towards the end of the race. I believe Alonso has twice stop during the in lap after the chequered flag.
Rosberg at Korea?

 

totally agree with you. as long as the engine freeze rules continue, RBR will continue to dominate. Vettel could easily pick up another 2 WDC in the next 2 years with RBR.

That probably the reason why LH has been looking so grumpy these days.

 

And Red Bull had the fastest car the year before with no exhaust blown diffuser. I don't expect them to lose much ground at all.

 

Regardless of where the RB car is, the Ferrari needs to improve big time IMO. Is it just me or does anyone else think it look like Alonso has to wrestle the car through nearly every turn?

-F

 

He's carrying it on his back.

 

Also lest we forget about 2006 when after an unsuccessful start to the year people were calling MS washed-up and were saying Ferrari had lost it (this just one year removed from bringing 5 titles to Ferrari) only to have him go on and nearly win the title.

 

A case of beer on that?

 

+1

With Felipe generally a few hundredths behind

Cheers,
Ian

 

Deal.

 

This.

There was a moment in Korea when Alonso was pushing so incredibly hard that when the F150 hit some curbing/paint, it nearly spun. I physically gasped and was stunned he was able to keep it in a straight line.

I can't remember what part of the race that was, but I do remember it was during a great shot looking behind Massa over his rear wing.

 

I don't believe that RB will suffer next year as some are saying. AN might have been talking out of his ass and his car is actually quite a long way already...

I do think that teams like Ferrari and Mercedes will have caught up at least with Mclaren, who have been spending a lot of development recently trying to capture the WCC. Ferrari only ever have small updates, together with Mercedes.

I think Red Bull have significantly decreased development on the RB7 4-5 races ago, and was actually being used as a test bed for the RB8. It only makes sense to do that...