RIP Dan Wheldon -- Indycar Season Finale in Vegas

Oh yes it is. I have one of those in my racing collection.

 

No question the sport has changed dramatically as it has become less lethal. Drivers take chances now that they never would in years past. But that's a subject for a other thread.

 

Gee, one day they'll even let women drive these cars...

Oh, never mind.

 

Maybe for you, but not for me. I can't even look at the pictures. All I can think of is what a ****ing waste. On a similar note, I get sick anytime I read about one of our guys dying in the Sand. But, at least one can pretend that war is worth it. I cannot say the same for car racing. It was wrong when a couple of guys were dying a year in F1. It doesn't matter that the drivers accepted the risk. Blood lust is never ethical. If there was a way to prevent this death, IRL and everybody else should move on it.

Dale

 

Dale, it is like you are reading my mind.

 

Once again, gotta agree with you. Progression means change, change comes from new information. They put cockpits on hydroplanes because it was the right thing to do. If a series like the IRL is going to continue on these ovals at these silly speeds, then enclosed cockpits and PARTIALLY enclosing the wheels ala Mickey Thompson is the way to go.

 

We all accept a level of risk every day. You can't function in an entirely safe world.
The question is where you draw the line.
Auto racing has, and always will, involve risk.

 

Without it, we might as well watch slot car racing.

There is a reason people care more about astronauts on the moon than satellites in our solar system: the human element and the risk that comes with it

 

Framing it in terms of risk may be the wrong context. It's exceeding barriers despite all the odds. Risk and danger are just part of it.

 

It might be wrong and not PC but I bet any money it is part of why a big part of the fans watch.

People don't want to see blood but they do like the fact that there is real risk involved.

 

That's true. Otherwise every news outlet in the country wouldn't be replaying the crash ab nauseum.
Id like to think that race fans are a bit more sophisticated these days. You don't see the old "Wall Of Death" tracks anymore.

 

The adoption of modified F-16 canopies in hydroplane and drag boat racing has reduced fatalities, in what were lethal machines before then, nearly to zero. The hydros are not as much fun to watch as they used to, but that is due to the relative silence of the current turbine engines (which came along before canopies), NOT the enclosed cockpits. (Give me a Merlin V-12 anytime!)

Apparently there were enough canopies rejected by the USAF for minor reasons - which did not affect their structural integrity - to make this a viable scheme for boat racing, as these were apparently available for very reasonable prices. Whether there would be enough to go around for cars is another matter. If you go to enclosed cockpits, you have to add an onboard air system and, ideally, an escape hatch in the bottom of the car.

 

That reminded me of when Don Garlits used an enclosed cockpit in Top Fuel. While googling it I came across this forum, http://www.nitromater.com/nhra/27899-i-do-not-like-thoughts-people-enclosed-cockpit.html, with a link to this, http://www.hondoboatsinc.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=64&Itemid=73.

I haven't followed drag racing but per the last pic (found on FB) it looks like he isn't using it right now.
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I watched a drag boat sink at the startingline, from 50 feet away, i had found a little hiding spot closer than any spectator was supposed to be. I didnt know the drivers had air bottles so imagine my horror as the driver was underwater for 2+ minutes before surfacing...

 

The risk of a trapped driver in an accident might keep the canopies away.

And given how much Wheldon's car disintegrated it is questionable that a canopy would have saved him.

 

Ah yes, but with knowledge we must minimize that risk, or we are nothing more than spectators at the Roman coliseum. And yes, you probably can function in a hypothetical entirely safe world. Why not?

You draw the line at the point of maximum technology. You do your best to protect the sportsman. F1 changed when Cevert died. Indy cars changed when Sachs died. NASCAR changed when Earnhardt Sr died, and the changes were all to the sport's benefit.

Canopies have worked successfully in F1 boat racing, and I can not think of a worse situation than being trapped underwater. If canopies work under water, they will work in auto racing. If you understand the technology, canopies work.

And why did those cars last Sunday so easily catch fire, what happened to their fuel cells, where is the protection of those fuel cells? No, a canopy would not have saved Wheldon, but there are other changes that would have saved him. One way to prevent airborne open wheeled cars is to partially enclose the wheels.

But apparently, I am not the typical race fan that is portrayed in this thread, I usually leave a race when there is one too many accidents. I much prefer competition. That does not require mayhem.

Honestly, I do not understand the thinking that status quo in auto racing is OK. We'd still be racing chariots if that were true. We'd still be racing front engined cars at Indianapolis. If canopies are an answer, then great, just do it. If enclosing the wheels is an answer, then great. Just do it.

As a sport, auto racing does not need another story like Dan Wheldon.

Patially enclosed wheels, Indy car in the 1960s, why not:
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Slot car racing is my domain.

As far as us watching men walk on the moon vs. satellites, the reason we watch is not because of the inherent danger, it's because we can relate - a PERSON did that! One of US! Gee, some day I want to grow up and be an astronaut.... what kid growing up in the 60's DIDN'T want to be an astronaut?

Halfway agree - I don't watch racing for the crashes, I watch it for the competition - and I bet 99% of the folks on here are the same way. I don't want to see crashes - they are expensive and people get hurt, I want to watch people WALK AWAY from crashes.

A canopy probably would have shattered and done more harm than good, I can just see a plexiglass canopy shattering and slicing a driver's head off. Hydroplanes are relatively flat, the surface they hit is relatively flat (water), cars hit walls, fences, posts, tire barriers, other cars, parts off cars (Massa), sure, have a canopy, and you can bet some other freak accident will happen and someone will die (with a canopy), and then what?

 

I think these decisions will take taken with some thought and testing rather than idle speculation.

Here's the test that F1 conducted so far, with plenty more to do:

http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2011/7/12314.html

 

+1

 

Wheldon Public Memorial set for Oct. 23, Memorial Fund Accepting Donations

From IndyCar PR ..

DAN WHELDON MEMORIAL SERVICE SCHEDULED FOR OCT. 23

INDIANAPOLIS, Tuesday, Oct. 18, 2011 -- INDYCAR will hold a public memorial service to celebrate the life of IZOD IndyCar Series driver Dan Wheldon at 4 p.m. Sunday, Oct. 23 at Conseco Fieldhouse in downtown Indianapolis.

Wheldon, a two-time Indianapolis 500 winner and 2005 IZOD IndyCar Series champion, sustained unsurvivable injuries in a racing accident Oct. 16 at Las Vegas Motor Speedway. He is survived by his wife, Susie, and two young sons. Wheldon was 33.

The Dan Wheldon Family Trust Fund has been established for the financial security of Wheldon's family. The public can make contributions to the Dan Wheldon Family Trust Fund starting Wednesday, Oct. 19 at the following address:

Fifth Third Private Bank
Attn: Dan Wheldon Family Trust
251 North Illinois St.
Suite 1000
Indianapolis, IN 46204

More details on how to contribute will be available in the coming days.

A memorial site, which includes a Facebook link to leave condolences and remembrances and a career photo retrospective, can be found at http://www.danwheldonmemorial.com.

 

SKY tribute program:

http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/95516




FIA investigation:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95518

 

after reading that second link twitter needs to not exist as a media outlet.

 

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95530

 

The irony is that next year's IRL car DOES address the flat bottom "flight" issue.....or attempts to.

I think the excessive flames seen here was due to the early stages of the race....a fuel cell "holds it" in a sense but fully loaded it's 'squeezed out" in the case of this level of destruction..

 

I doubt if any of the visible fire was caused by more than minute amounts of fuel leakage.