Fabspeed parts made in Taiwan? | FerrariChat

Fabspeed parts made in Taiwan?

Discussion in '360/430' started by SfefVan, Oct 26, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. SfefVan

    SfefVan Guest

    Nov 28, 2008
    1,370
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Stef
    Nice pictures indeed.

    May I ask where your F430 headers are manufactured?

    Thanks
     
  2. Fabspeed Motorsport

    Sponsor

    Feb 5, 2009
    3,056
    Fort Washington, PA
    Full Name:
    John S
    #2 Fabspeed Motorsport, Oct 26, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Stef,

    Our headers are built in our shop here at Fabspeed. We are located near Philadelphia PA in the USA. We don't actually manufacture the merge collector. We have a company cast them for us.

    Please note, the pic below is a Porsche header (it is clearly missing a tube!), but it is the best picture I could find of our header fabrication table. Thanks!

    Jeff
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  3. SfefVan

    SfefVan Guest

    Nov 28, 2008
    1,370
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Stef
    Thanks Jeff,

    You don't have any pictures of the F360-F430 headers being manufactured at your shop in Philadelphia PA ?
     
  4. Fabspeed Motorsport

    Sponsor

    Feb 5, 2009
    3,056
    Fort Washington, PA
    Full Name:
    John S
    Hi Stef,

    I don't see any pics of the F430 headers being built in our library, but we are currently building 355 headers downstairs. I can take some pictures of that tomorrow when the welders return if you'd like. We currently have over 20 sets of F430 headers ready to ship, so we won't be making any until the supply is depleted. I can post a pic of our F430 header jig also.

    Are you thinking of switching from your Capristo's?

    Jeff
     
  5. SfefVan

    SfefVan Guest

    Nov 28, 2008
    1,370
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Stef
    Yes Jeff, would love to see some pictures of the F355 headers being manufactured. Do you have any CAD files of the conception of your F360/F430 headers? I'm sure you must have them as you had to realise the entire conception first which can only be done using CAD software.
     
  6. Michael B

    Michael B F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Apr 28, 2004
    3,758
    US of A
    Full Name:
    Michael
    With all due respect... If I were Fabspeed I would consider my CAD files propitiatory.
     
  7. Fabspeed Motorsport

    Sponsor

    Feb 5, 2009
    3,056
    Fort Washington, PA
    Full Name:
    John S
    #7 Fabspeed Motorsport, Oct 27, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

    Sorry it took so long... Here is a pic of a 355 (2.7) header coming together. I will not post any renders on this site. Please let me know if you have any other questions. Thanks!

    Jeff
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  8. SfefVan

    SfefVan Guest

    Nov 28, 2008
    1,370
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Stef
    #8 SfefVan, Oct 27, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Now in this post I’m going to reveal the truth about Fabspeed. The entire Ferrari community should know the real origin of Fabspeed products. Despite the fact that Fabspeed persist in writing that their products like the F355,F360 and F430 headers are produced by them near Philadelphia PA in the USA, I can tell that all this are lies!

    All their products are manufactured in TAIWAN !

    Fabspeed buy all their products at :

    TIM Technologies CO. LTD,
    No. 337-1, Jhong Jhe ng Rd.,

    Dashe Township, Kaohsiung #81545,

    Taiwan.

    Tel: +886-7-353-6261

    Fax: +886-7-353-6061

    Web: WWW.JIM.COM.TW

    The head of this company is Nora Hung. Anyone can check my statement by writing him directly at [email protected]

    Anyone who bought Fabspeed headers, have Made In Taiwan headers on their cars...Fabspeed label even their boxes shipped to their clients “Made In USA” while it should be labelled “Made In Taiwan” as they are just buying and reselling them without transformations (except the 2.7 version of the F355 headers, see further). Fabspeed are just box movers and they never did any R&D on the F355/F360/F430 headers and exhaust parts...They just pretend doing R&D what I call serious cheating if not scamming customers. Of course, not surprisingly Fabspeed can’t provide any evidence of CAD files and proof of conception of the F430 headers or any other headers...

    Anyone should know that the best stainless steel in Taiwan is worse than the worst stainless steel in Europe and, as a consequence, is cheaper. That’s why Fabspeed can offer cheaper prices with headers they bought at 800$ each.

    Now the picture of the F355 that Fabspeed posted above is also very interesting. These are the 5.2 headers sold by JIM Technologies Taiwan and Fabspeed is modifying them for the 2.7 versions. Who would weld finished polished headers??? Nobody, except those how are buying an existing product to transform it. JIM Technologies Taiwan is only manufacturing the 5.2 headers. Once again, Fabspeed is lying.

    Attached are some picture of the F430 headers sold by JIM Technologies Taiwan. They are of course 100% identical as those sold by Fabspeed.

    Another attachment shows the shipments parcels from JIM Technologies Taiwan to Fabspeed.

    As shown in the last attachment, JIM Technologies Taiwan sell their F355/F360/F430 headers exclusively to the USA but not only to Fabspeed (compare for example the F430 Agency Power headers and you’ll discover a 100% identical product).

    I believe that guys like Fabspeed are taking Ferrari owners for stupid guys...well they will learn in the hard way that some Ferrari owners have many high profile business partners especially in South-East Asia and that the world is very very small. Hope this is a good lesson!

    Anyone who wants more evidence clearly stating that one of the main clients of JIM Technologies is Fabspeed can PM me.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  9. Fabspeed Motorsport

    Sponsor

    Feb 5, 2009
    3,056
    Fort Washington, PA
    Full Name:
    John S
    Hello Everyone,

    I am sorry for the delay in my response. I will do my best to clear up some of the questions that have been asked. I have been with Fabspeed for the last 8 months, so I am still new to the business, but I am very familiar with the daily operations of the manufacturing department. I am excited to be working for a company with both a long history and a bright future. Although my background is mostly with Porsche, I have become very familiar with Ferrari and their owners (thanks to Fchat). Although I do not have the most experience here, I have gladly become the liaison to Ferrari Chat and therefore I should address the issue.

    Fabspeed Motorsport is an engineering and manufacturing company based in the USA. We have been manufacturing exhaust systems since 1992. As a manufacturing company, we do import certain components such as catalytic converters, cast merge collectors, and flanges that are necessary to create the finished product. All finished products are welded and tested at Fabspeed before they are ready to be installed or shipped. Due to the increased demand for our products, it would be nearly impossible to make all of the components in house. It is an unfortunate truth that in this day in age, we cannot source all of the items needed to complete all of our systems in the United States. Fabspeed has made every effort to make all products in house with certain limitations due to the size of our facility and the number of employees we have. We are in the process of moving to a new facility that will allow us to expand our product lines as well as reduce the amount of outsourced products. It would be in our best interests to keep our suppliers and distributors confidential, as this information makes us vulnerable to other companies who have copied our products throughout the years. We have entertained patenting certain products, but we have been advised that it would be a costly and time consuming process for our extremely large product line.

    Regarding these headers, we are not simply “pushing boxes” as someone had earlier stated. We have the capability to make them from start to finish in house. However, if we did that, we wouldn’t be able to meet demand nor would we be able to sell them at a price that keeps our customers happy. The most important thing (to me, at least) is that the headers work as designed and do not fail. Our lifetime warrantee is a testament to our ability to stand behind our product.

    We have been recently showcased in “Tube and Pipe Journal”, in which we were featured as the cover story. The article written by Eric Lundin, which is a well written, third party critique is available on our website. We welcome visitors to our facility to see what we do in person. When we move to our new, 30,000 sq ft. facility in a few months, we will have much more to show; and seeing that there is a lot of interest in our manufacturing processes, we intend to that. Since my arrival, I have seen Fabspeed purchase close to $1M worth of machinery that will help improve our ability to produce quality products.

    Finally, I will not comment on any other questions posed by people who clearly have a motive against Fabspeed. It is destructive to all of us. If you have questions over the weekend, you can email me, as I am not on Fchat too much while not at work. Thank you for reading this!

    Jeff
    [email protected]
     
  10. nathandarby67

    nathandarby67 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Feb 1, 2005
    8,349
    Mississippi
    Full Name:
    Nathan
    #10 nathandarby67, Oct 28, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2011
    Thanks for the detailed reply, but this still leaves a lot of grey area and wiggle room. With as much uncertainty as is now present, I think Fabspeed would be better served if they detailed EXACTLY which 430 pieces are imported and EXACTLY how much assembly takes place in Taiwan and how much takes place here. Saying they are "welded" in the US doesn't tell us much. That could be anything from assembling the entire thing to just welding the nameplate on a finished product. If, for example, you import your flanges and collectors, make the tubes here, and do ALL the assembly here, just say so. But if you are importing almost completely assembled headers and just putting on the finishing touches, that is something very different. I don't believe telling us this information gives away any trade secrets or supplier names. We just want to know where these things are really being made.

    Another concern is the quality of the steel being used. Which parts are made from US steel and which are Chinese/other?

    I am not a Fabspeed "basher" by any means. I am just a potential customer who has been shopping for Boxter headers and have been considering Fabspeed. I have the same questions and concerns about those as the 430 headers being discussed here.
     
  11. Xcheckme

    Xcheckme Formula 3

    May 10, 2011
    1,682
    Tampa Bay
    Full Name:
    Lukas
    One one side I can certainly understand where you are coming from - and in my business we are very open which of our products are manufactured in the US vs at one of our European facilities - but why would this really matter in this case? Yes, I get the idea that for a multitude of reasons some consumers will prefer a domestic manufactured product over one that is made overseas (especially in China), but simply "guessing" the quality of a product based on the location of the manufacturing facility just doesn't seem logic to me.
    I've followed this thread and like many others I have been reading between the lines where Stef seems to have pushed the envelope a bit more, and Jeff/Fabspeed possibly having been a bit more evasive than I would have been. But demanding from a manufacturer to post CAD drawings on an internet forum as one poster has is simply plain silly......
    A bit more on topic: I installed a Fabspeed exhaust (not headers) on my 360 and while I've seen prettier welds/fit/finish, I am very happy with both the performance sound as well as with the service provided by Fabspeed.
     
  12. nathandarby67

    nathandarby67 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Feb 1, 2005
    8,349
    Mississippi
    Full Name:
    Nathan
    #12 nathandarby67, Oct 28, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2011
    I definitely agree with you here. Asking for propitiatory information is just crazy. No business in their right mind would post that.

    I also think that, given the allegations, the evasiveness displayed by Fabspeed makes their company and product look that much more questionable. Just a straightforward explanation of exactly what is made where would make 99% of folks happy. Importing a few cast pieces and putting it all together here is very different that importing a finished product and putting it in a "Made in USA" cardboard box and representing it as such.

    As I said in another thread about this issue, personally I couldn't care less where they are welded together at. All I care about is that they are made of high quality steel and that they fit and function properly, and that I am not lied to about the product.

    All else aside, I do think that Fabspeed's lifetime warranty says a LOT about their commitment to a quality product.
     
  13. Russell996

    Russell996 Formula 3

    Sep 24, 2010
    2,263
    New Forest UK
    Full Name:
    Russell
    http://www.thebestemployee.com/forum/showthread.php?t=323756

    Posts 5 + 9 in the above thread are pretty clear. 100% US made, nothing made abroad and imported.

    ....'None of our products are sourced from China. The only item we use that is not from USA are the raw catalytic converters... they come from Germany then are fabricated here.....'

    I assume it is this sort of statement Stef was querying, with lots of the posts deleted we don't know what he was driving at but Jeff's own response in this thread casts doubt on this previous post.

    ..."As a manufacturing company, we do import certain components such as catalytic converters, cast merge collectors, and flanges that are necessary to create the finished product. All finished products are welded and tested at Fabspeed before they are ready to be installed or shipped. Due to the increased demand for our products, it would be nearly impossible to make all of the components in house. It is an unfortunate truth that in this day in age, we cannot source all of the items needed to complete all of our systems in the United States.....'

    Jeff, which is it, '100% US except raw cat material' or 'assembly of a number of imported parts' or 'something else'. Clarification and honesty needed for the good of all?

    Another Jeff quote..

    ...'We have the capability to make them from start to finish in house. However, if we did that, we wouldn’t be able to meet demand nor would we be able to sell them at a price that keeps our customers happy. ...'

    Jeff, so what do you do? Please let us all know, no industrial secrets, no names, no cad diagrams, just an honesty on how you produce your headers given demand, price point, quality requirements etc.

    Bring back Stef +1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.
     
  14. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 6, 2010
    24,851
    Northern Virginia
    Full Name:
    Bob
    You guys do realize Sfefvan got exactly what he wanted, right? He may be in hiatus, but I'm sure wherever he is, he's gloating. Let it play out privately. He'll be back.
     
  15. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    59,406
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    I’m disappointed SfefVan didn’t return my email copied below sent Friday morning at 10:30 AM Central Time. I’m disappointed SfefVan instead of working with FerrariChat clarifying open questions decided to work against us by creating alias accounts. He also went on the attack elsewhere against FerrariChat and softening his message against Fabspeed.

    Since sending the email to Stef I have learned more on my own which I originally asked Stef. So the points I needed to resolve with Stef have been resolved without him…

    1) I talked to Capristo directly in Germany and also U.S. dealer Taurino. I don’t believe Stef works for Capristo, he was actually a critique of Capristo until he ran his own tests. Stef has spent time at their factory and is friends with Capristo, but is not an employee or shill.
    2) I can move the posts in question to their own thread.
    3) We can defer this conversation for a later time along with the alias account and other attacks against FerrariChat.
    4) I didn’t know it, but the import information posted is public info along with the information on the Taiwan business.

    So in the end I’m disappointed how Stef baited and posted his info in a Sponsor thread and decided to work against us instead of with us after I nicely reached out. I thought I was handling this the right way by getting the parties involved in an offline discussion before it got out of hand in public. Without any offline participation by Stef and little from Fabspeed I was the only one left to take the heat. In hindsight I should have just split the posts off and not banned SfefVan. I apologize to SfefVan for the ban, I understand how just the idea of a ban and lack of privileges would make you mad and not want to respond to my email. Maybe someday we can work out our differences on how this was handled 1 on 1. In the meantime I think its more important that the discussion is open and continues. SfefVan’s account back open and time lost added to subscription.
     
  16. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,214
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    Hopefully a "win-win" and we are all just a little better for it. :)
     
  17. F430addict

    F430addict F1 Rookie

    Sep 17, 2010
    4,460
    Pat on the back Rob.

    Welcome back Stef...I hope.
     
  18. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Jan 16, 2005
    4,661
    #18 RichardCH, Oct 30, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2011
    Sfefvan runs his own information technology consultancy and currently works for one of my Clients virtually full time, which in a Global Multinational Corporation, completely independent from the automotive industry, I can verfiy that.
     
  19. crcs

    crcs Formula 3
    BANNED

    Apr 18, 2009
    1,306
    Burlington Ontario
    #19 crcs, Oct 30, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2011
    So then you admit the headers are Chinese and Fabspeed simply adds improved flanges and/or quality controls what comes in?

    Now do you really have the capability of making a proper exhaust system from start to finish? These aren't Honda civics and mustangs where you can weld up exhausts and test them on a 20K chassis dyno. I was watching how AMG stress tests their exhausts and the process was tedious, there are a lot of vibrations + various load considerations to factor in. Are you suggesting fab-speed completes that entire process as well? With sophisticated computer systems mimicking real life vehicle scenarios? What about the infamous CELs + overheating exhausts? I know what Made in USA means these days, it usually means fit and finish only. I think the OP had a valid point in bringing out its a little misleading branding yourself as an all out US manufacturing facility.
     
  20. THonda

    THonda Formula Junior

    Jul 7, 2004
    719
    Long Island, NY
    Full Name:
    TH
    No wonder the lifetime warranty, paying fabspeed pricing can probably buy 5 of these headers directly from Taiwan. Anyone that purchased these headers from them should demand a refund or significant discount for the false advertisement! Shame on fabspeed!
     
  21. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    98,539
    Vegas baby
    I have no dog in this fight but there's a huge difference between Taiwan and Mainland China.

    I go to both all the time and have for over 20 years. Taiwan manufacturing and engineering is much more closer to the US than mainland China.

    Calling Taiwanese products "Chinese" is just not correct. They are apples and oranges.
     
  22. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 7, 2003
    22,179
    Full Name:
    C9H8O4
    Aggressive mark-up on parts for your Ferrari?

    I've never, ever heard of such a thing!
     
    BlacktopRacing likes this.
  23. swilliams

    swilliams Formula 3

    Jun 14, 2006
    1,407
    Bowling Green, KY
    Full Name:
    Scott
    Even a more funny twist.

    Read this thread..about my "attempted" purchase of these headers around a year ago.
    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=275463&highlight=headers

    Vivid would never sell them to me made many excuses and said "we were making another batch" as if they too were welding them up out back in their shop. lol

    Vivid also said in PM that Fabspeed contacted them and somehow put a stop to them selling the headers so cheap.
    "The headers we will make again we just have agreed with fabspeed not to post info about them" was the quote from the pm.

    So they both were importing them and when Vivid found them from a Taiwan vendor and they priced them cheaper but somehow Fabspeed talked them out of selling them for $1500.

    Ohh, the drama of the aftermarket Ferrari exhaust world!!
     
  24. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 6, 2010
    24,851
    Northern Virginia
    Full Name:
    Bob
    Makes you wonder how much a full exhaust from Taiwan would cost, headers to tips without the fabspeed markup? $5000?
     
  25. 355dreamer

    355dreamer F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 3, 2006
    10,469
    DC Metro
    Full Name:
    L.C.
    Much, much less. I think bulk pricing for the headers alone is in the $6-700 range. Add straight pipes and a muffler, and I bet you're out the door for around $1,500 - $2,000.

    Group buy anyone? ;)
     

Share This Page