2011 FORMULA 1 AIRTEL GRAND PRIX OF INDIA: RACE *** Spoilers ***

Wonder if we can trade him for Rosberg.

If only to make Isobel happy.

 

I doubt it would make much of a difference. For either team.

But it would make me happier. Rosberg I actually like personalitywise.

 

Same here. I've seen the petulant behavior all season, but tended to excuse it because a) he's a Ferrari driver and b) his misfortune in 2009. Also, in other incidents I felt that LH was forcing the action and Massa could argue he was defending. This time it was a blatant move to close the door on a driver who had fairly taken the position.

Here, it's pretty obvious that Massa has issues with Hamilton and simply will not let him pass. I saw that in Monaco (though the attempt was VERY ambitious by LH), I saw it in Singapore, Suzuka, etc. I don't understand why Hamilton is 100% of Massa's focus, but Rob Snyder needs to get him back on track instead of feeding the situation. His job is to win races, not "destroy Hamilton's race". I believe his actions are a combination of a) feeling that HE (Massa) should have been the champion in 2008 and b) some of their history of jousting on the track. That said, it appears Hamilton wants to put it behind him and get back to racing while Massa feels that it keeps him relevant.

Maybe something was knocked loose in that '09 accident...I just don't get it.

 

Mmm... I seem to recall Hamilton doing something similar in Singapore when he twice refused to acknowledge Massa at all when Massa went to see him about their coming together!
(For those with selective memory syndrome, it was this double snub by Hamilton that resulted in Massa speaking to him in the press paddock after the race in front of the TV cameras).

From :http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95813 :

When asked about Hamilton's attempt to settle matters with Massa before the race by putting him arm around him, which he claims was snubbed, Domenicali said: "You will recall that Felipe went to see him in Singapore, and Lewis decided to do other stuff.

And Hamilton isn't?
Hamilton is totally innocent in all their comings together?
Refusing to acknowledge Massa when he wants to query what happened in the race is the action of a grown up is it?
His infamous comments to the BBC after the Monaco GP about the stewards and being called up to see them yet again, is that the actions of a grown up?.

Wake up and smell the coffee, at the moment they're as bad as each other!:

"He did it!, wasn't Me!"
"No I didn't, it was him!"
"Was not!"
"Was too!"
"Liar!"
"Tell-tale!"
"Gonna get My dad on to you!"
"Yeah?, My dad's bigger than your Dad!"

 

I still contend it's a racing incident. Both were at fault. Hamilton's move was miss guided, too risky, and poorly executed.

Massa either didn't see him or intentionally cut him off.

Both were at fault.

This incident should not have happened if both drivers were actually thinking.

 

Haha. Conspiracy theorists unite!

That would be one heck of a pile of team orders since Canada then. Michael's race pace has always been quicker than Nico this season when his car is working just the same as Nico's qualy pace is quicker than Michael's. After the second pit stop Michael gained .3 seconds per lap on Nico through to the final pit stop where he came out ahead of Nico and continued to build the gap at .3+ per lap.

Nico is great at setting up for qualy but for some reason he cannot drive around the issues inherent to the car when it has a full tank and winds down from full tank. Michael on the other hand can drive the car with a wide array of setups and balance which is why he is quicker on race pace. I believe Michael sets up his car with race pace being a priority too. Also for some reason Michael has been much much easier on his tires than Nico. Nico is a fantastic driver and he could win and contend for the championship in a better car, but he is no Schumacher.

 

i honestly don't see the collision as Massa's fault (of course, i've only seen replays online cuz for some reason my DirecTV DVR only caught one hour of the race ).

It looks to me that Massa was in the lead, on the racing line, moving toward the apex. Was that not the case?

If so, he has ZERO obligation to move, to avoid impact. It doesn't matter how fast the guy behind is closing. It doesn't matter if the guy behind is known to take frequent, unnecessary risk. It doesn't matter that the guy in front saw him in the mirror.

The guy in the lead, on the racing line, has no obligation to move over to avoid impact. The guy behind has the duty to avoid impact.

Was Massa not in front, on the racing line?

 

Am on a phone but don't worry i will get back to funny guy

 

Lost my cable service from the storm, so I couldn't watch it live. I already know the results but cable is back on. I guess it re-broadcast time for me.

Forza Ferrari - LOL!!

 

Okay, a simple question for you:

Are you saying that Hamilton snubbing Massa twice after a race is fine and not childish whereas Massa snubbing Hamilton is?

for Me, I can't see the difference, so by your definition, they're both acting like pair of pathetic school kids, they're as bad as each other!.







Lets not forget though that F1 loves a good rivalry, think Senna-Prost; Schumacher-Hill; Lauda-Hunt; Mansell-his car.

At the moment the only three teams that are of any real interest in F1 are Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari (sorry to any Mercedes fans but they're best of the rest and not really at the sharp end).


Now, look at their drivers and one with a rival:

Vettel?: Too nice.
Webber?: Too busy sulking and trying to figure out how why he can't keep up with Seb.
Button?: Like Vettel, too nice.
Alonso: Too busy trying to get Ferrari working right to prove he's not made a career mistake.

So this leaves us with Massa and Hamilton.

Neither has much to race for now, both are performing at similar levels (mainly due to Hamilton's distractions as he is normally naturally faster than Massa-that's just a given), and both seem to be as pig headed as the other.

So, during the current Vettel win bore fests (tongue in cheek to a degree), we at least have a decent rivalry dogfight to watch somewhere on the track that's of some interest: when will Massa and Hamilton come together and who will get the blame this time?.

 

I can actually see that as an argument. But I think there is more at hand. Either Rosberg is of average talent and/or simply not very motivated. The way he goes backwards during the races is appauling.

BTW: By now MS must be leading the "best starter of the field" group. I haven't seen an update on any statistics but he did it again in India.

 

I think Rosberg is now suffering from a similar issue to another driver in a front running team who seems to be struggling while his team mate is doing well (mentioning no names - Ahem! ).
It seems his motivation has slipped away as Schumacher has got to grips with the car (and it may even be the old case of the team developing the car to suit Schumacher better).

An interesting statement of the BBC today was that there was disappointment in Webber's ability to make up places off the start line.

My first thought was: It's a bit difficult to make up places when you've usually got just Sebastian Vettel ahead of you!

 

Actually, the inside line at a left hand corner is the racing line. Massa had lost it at that point and decided to force the action because he still was in front (though on the outside).

Bottom line; these guys need to settle their differences in the ring because it's becoming a huge distraction on the track. It's almost like you expect there to be a crash anytime Hamilton is behind Massa. If Massa is behind Hamilton, nothing happens (because he's not going to catch Lewis)

 

You have to be more specific than that since there seems to be so many teams now that have that situation:

Alonso - Massa
Vettel - Webber
Button - Hamilton

 

if that's the case, i stand corrected.

I'm not familiar enough with the new circuit, and from the online vid i saw it looked as though Massa was on the line, moving toward the apex. I was suspicious of some of the criticism against Massa, because sometimes it's all too easy to confuse "closing the door" on an inside move, with a natural move towards apex.

But if Massa was off the line, and made an un-naturally aggressive move (that he would not otherwise have made) just because a pass was imminent ... then i can understand the blame on Massa, even if he was in the lead.

 

Unlike the others, Hamilton's issues are more about mixing it up with other drivers during overtaking moves. They've taken him from #2 in the WDC race to #5 over a 7-race span. He needs to find a way to shore up those issues going into next season (having a faster car would be a start).

Massa and Webber are simply inferior drivers to Alonso and Vettel.

 

Agreed on all.

 

I take a bit of an issue with the part I bold-ed. I remember earlier in the season Hamilton blaming his collision problems on the fact that he wasn't qualifying farther up in the grid ... that's a fundamental misunderstanding of the problem, in my view. It's akin to saying that, "If my car was faster, I'd start closer to pole, and these passing collisions would then be avoided!". Ummm ... there's another way to avoid these collisions, too ... even in a non-competitive car

And Hamilton is proving himself to be inferior to Button.

Hamilton has the raw talent in spades, no doubt ... perhaps more than any driver on the grid. But it takes more than raw talent to be a champion ... it takes judgment, attitude, patience, etc. too. All things considered, Button is clearly the superior driver.

 

Shoe has racecraft in spades over Nico but he can rarely outqualify him. Therefore he complains of a problem during quali, drops a few spots to inferior gridmates and then storms past them once the green is dropped, giving the illusion he is returning to form when in reality all he has done is return to the position he should have qualified in.

Nico qualifies where he should then can't move up due to the obvious. He stays there most of the race giving the perception he's cruising. If he drops a position to MS, wow, he isn't pushing.

I can't deny MS seems to move in on NR during the close of most races though and my guess is it may be due to fatigue. I believe Nico may need to take a few pages from Shoe's conditioning notebook.

I have no doubt there are team orders (or a gentlemen's agreement) at MB. Neither driver tends to pass towards the end of any race I've witnessed this year, unless one of them has a problem or is notably slower.

 

+2 to that. The apocalypse is coming everyone. All this agreeing with Tifosi12.....


Ham seems to be a more insane version of young Schu. Greatly talented but sort of a Ricky Bobby, if you ain't first you're last type attitude. That and he has had some horrible luck this year with run-ins with pretty much everyone, you name it and he has been in the weeds with them

 

we all don't see it as "horrible luck" for Hamilton meaning, maybe it's something other than bad luck on his part?

 

Yeah I can see that. He certainly puts himself in his situations most of the time doesn't he. I'm sure he is looking forward to next year more than anyone on the grid.

 

I was thinking the exact same thing when watching this race. How will history look upon young Nico in ten years time? I can't see him raising his game but if he doesn't he will have a bright future behind him...

 

Just finished watching the SPEED replay.
Power out for an hour. Cable out for. Longer.
Snow lightest here by coast. Three inches.
I stopped shoveling snow years ago.
Thanks for the support. And regards to the Aussie lemon farmer too.

 

Speak like Yoda you do.