Fabspeed Follows up

TonyW · Oct 31, 2011

I understand that the majority of the FerrariChat community took Fabspeed’s delay in responses to the allegations negatively. Also some of you choose to believe that Fabspeed ONLY imports products. If you have never purchased our products our visited our facility what makes you believe “Made in USA” Surely it’s not just because we say it! What makes you believe we ONLY import products and re label them? Is it because someone showed a shipping document? Unfortunately Fabspeed employees were baited to post Drawings and declare information with whom Fabspeed does business with. This was taken out of their hands by management. Jeff@fabspeed was unaware of the motives from the individuals and didn’t want to answer anything incorrectly. Yet you took this as he, or Fabspeed was lying.
As far as Fabspeed Made in the USA is concerned Fabspeed does all its Engineering, Product development and testing in house in Ambler Pa (USA). Again any skeptics are more than welcome to visit our facility. Fabspeed has also made sure that as we grow as a company we will continue to offer the exotic sports car community the very best products and price. This being said it is sometimes more cost effective to have other company’s build certain products for us to our specs. When products are outsourced Fabspeed provides all documents and drawings to ensure that all products are built to our specifications.
We at Fabspeed start off every product design by capturing data using our PCMM 7 axis Romer arm. The 7 axis Romer arm combined with several Cad software programs including Auto Cad, Solid works along with sophisticated Swiss tubing and Simulation programs allow us to determine actual fit and function prior to manufacturing. Once we determine that the Fabspeed prototype product meets all our needs for “Sound, Fitment, and most of all performance” we create manufacturing fixtures to which each product is built in. Along with the array of CAD software Fabspeed utilizes the following machinery to perfect the building and manufacturing processes of our products: CNC Plasma table to produce highly accurate building fixtures, A 5 Axis water jet to allow fabspeed to produce all flanges and brackets including the beveled flanges the Ferrari’s require. A Full CNC Unison Breeze all electric tubing bender to allow us to bend with extreme tolerances and repeatability. A work force of 7 full time TIG welders and newly added robotic welding equipment can all be found in our USA based facility in Ambler Pa.
Fabspeed employs a team of 25+ individuals from different automotive backgrounds that are all passionate about the products we develop, design, manufacture and sell. In closing when you say how can Fabspeed claim USA made.... That’s why we believe we can say with Pride MADE IN THE USA.

Thank you to all the loyal Fabspeed customers who stand behind our products!

Sincerely,

Tony
Product development
Manufacturing manager
[email protected]
Fabspeed Motorsport USA
283 N. Main Street
Ambler, PA. 19002
Phone# 215-646-4945
Fax # 215-646-9828

junglistluder · Oct 31, 2011

TonyW said: ↑

This being said it is sometimes more cost effective to have other companys build certain products for us to our specs. When products are outsourced Fabspeed provides all documents and drawings to ensure that all products are built to our specifications.
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So are these sub-manufacturing companies in the USA?

Jimi900 · Oct 31, 2011

junglistluder said: ↑

So are these sub-manufacturing companies in the USA?
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Seriously...

Good for you Tony!

CCns23 · Oct 31, 2011

junglistluder said: ↑

So are these sub-manufacturing companies in the USA?
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Does it matter? If you're not happy with the explanation that's fine. But why keep beating this dead horse? You have both sides of the story now. Be an adult, draw your conclusions with the facts laid out in front of you, and move on.

And no, I have absolutely no affiliation with FabSpeed in any way except for the fact that we happen to be in the same county in PA. And they are on the complete other side of it...

2NA · Oct 31, 2011

TonyW said: ↑

In closing when you say how can Fabspeed claim USA made.... Thats why we believe we can say with Pride MADE IN THE USA.
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No dog in this fight but I'm not sure I see all the dots connected.

THonda · Oct 31, 2011

Simple Questions:

Is the 430 header made in the USA as claimed?

If the headers are designed by Fabspeed, does it mean the identical agency power header is a stolen design?

arizonaitalian · Oct 31, 2011

To be clear, the majority (if not all) folks here are more worried that your employee/representative mislead/lied to us here on Ferrarichat in prior sales/marketing threads regarding your products.

Please reply with regard to the accuracy of these quotes. A simple "true" or "untrue" would be appreciated. Fwiw, "partially/sometimes true" = "untrue". Here are the quotes:

"Our replacement headers are hand made in the USA" - Jeff from Fabspeed, posted on Ferrari chat on August 16, 2011

"None of our products are sourced from China. The only item we use that is not from USA are the raw catalytic converters... they come from Germany then are fabricated here" - Jeff from Fabspeed posted on Ferrari chat on May 17, 2011

CCns23 · Oct 31, 2011

Simple fix to this issue Tony. Just take a page out of Apple's playbook and put "Designed by FabSpeed in Pennsylvania" and be done with this nonsense.

junglistluder · Oct 31, 2011

It just seems like they have a very hard time confessing that the products originate from Asia. How does a product subcontracted to a Taiwanese company equal "Proudly Made in the USA?" I'm with 2NA and just don't see the dots connected. Sounds like they're confusing "Designed in the USA" with "Made in the USA". And also because you may make some parts in the USA does not mean you can brand all your products as Proudly Made in the USA.

arizonaitalian · Oct 31, 2011

TonyW said: ↑

Thank you to all the loyal Fabspeed customers who stand behind our products!
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Sadly, your company made this all about your integrity, not your products.

RichardCH · Oct 31, 2011

So you obviously don't IMPORT ANYTHING from TAIWAN or CHINA then ?? MADE in the USA only from US Steel, I guess it is down to the actual legal definition of "Made in the USA" . With a Swiss Watch you can't claim that the instrument is made in Switzerland, unless the central time piece is actually manufactuired in Switzerland, where ever it is designed & assembled. Maybe we could start with "Designed in the USA" as part of the way forward....

Jimi900 · Oct 31, 2011

RichardCH said: ↑

So you obviously don't IMPORT ANYTHING from TAIWAN or CHINA then ?? MADE in the USA only from US Steel, I guess it is down to the actual legal definition of "Made in the USA" . With a Swiss Watch you can't claim that the instrument is made in Switzerland, unless the central time piece is actually manufactuired in Switzerland, where ever it is designed & assembled. Maybe we could start with "Designed in the USA" as part of the way forward....
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Here is the wikipdia definition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_USA

the first line.."The Made in USA mark is a country of origin label indicating the product is "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. The label is regulated by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC).

To me, it seems that no wrong doing has been do here. The FTC even thinks that.

CCns23 · Oct 31, 2011

Jimi900 said: ↑

Here is the wikipdia definition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_USA

the first line.."The Made in USA mark is a country of origin label indicating the product is "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. The label is regulated by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC).

To me, it seems that no wrong doing has been do here. The FTC even thinks that.
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But you see, there in the wording lies the real issue. What is the definition of "MADE in the U.S.A?". If I buy a one part in Taiwan, and another from Germany, then yet another from Timbukto, but assemble those parts in the US wouldn't that technically mean the product was "MADE" in the US?

Just trying to rabble rouse. I think this nonsense has gotten out of hand and people need to focus on more important things like what the Mrs. is making for dinner tonight.

arizonaitalian · Oct 31, 2011

The legal definitions and requirements have been posted in the other thread. You can find the answers there.

kaamacat · Oct 31, 2011

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=336169&highlight=fabspeed

Guys.......Truth be told......If I was looking to purchase something, and saw the posting above, I'd be expecting that what I purchased to be made in PA/USA, pure and simple. I'd be expecting handmade in PA/USA.

At some point the thread will end (both of them) with where the units are made and it will be done.

HH11 · Oct 31, 2011

"Made in the USA" to me means that every aspect and piece of something was made in the country.

No Taiwan or China ifs, ands, or buts.

CCns23 · Oct 31, 2011

gmast827 said: ↑

"Made in the USA" to me means that every aspect and piece of something was made in the country.

No Taiwan or China ifs, ands, or buts.
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I wonder how many parts in your Italian car aren't made in Italy?

Dr_ferrari · Oct 31, 2011

CCns23 said: ↑

I wonder how many parts in your Italian car aren't made in Italy?
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There is quite a bit. that is true. But they disclose percentages of parts orgins with the window sticker of the car when new.

I believe that was a requirement for import of the car to USA.

Regards, Jim

dm_n_stuff · Oct 31, 2011

Let's be clear here, The FTC has final say on the veracity of a Made in USA claim by a manufacturer.

What we're talking about here is meeting the unqualified claim standard, in as much as Fabspeed does not list a percentage US made in its description. By simply stating, "Made in the USA" they are held to the highest standard, which is stated below from the FTC website. (I've added some bold highlights.)

The Standard For Unqualified Made In USA Claims
What is the standard for a product to be called Made in USA without qualification?

For a product to be called Made in USA, or claimed to be of domestic origin without qualifications or limits on the claim, the product must be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. The term "United States," as referred to in the Enforcement Policy Statement, includes the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and the U.S. territories and possessions.
What does "all or virtually all" mean?

"All or virtually all" means that all significant parts and processing that go into the product must be of U.S. origin. That is, the product should contain no or negligible foreign content.
What substantiation is required for a Made in USA claim?

When a manufacturer or marketer makes an unqualified claim that a product is Made in USA, it should have and rely on a "reasonable basis" to support the claim at the time it is made. This means a manufacturer or marketer needs competent and reliable evidence to back up the claim that its product is "all or virtually all" made in the U.S.
What factors does the Commission consider to determine whether a product is "all or virtually all" made in the U.S.?

The products final assembly or processing must take place in the U.S. The Commission then considers other factors, including how much of the products total manufacturing costs can be assigned to U.S. parts and processing, and how far removed any foreign content is from the finished product. In some instances, only a small portion of the total manufacturing costs are attributable to foreign processing, but that processing represents a significant amount of the products overall processing. The same could be true for some foreign parts. In these cases, the foreign content (processing or parts) is more than negligible, and, as a result, unqualified claims are inappropriate.

Example: A company produces propane barbecue grills at a plant in Nevada. The products major components include the gas valve, burner and aluminum housing, each of which is made in the U.S. The grills knobs and tubing are imported from Mexico. An unqualified Made in USA claim is not likely to be deceptive because the knobs and tubing make up a negligible portion of the products total manufacturing costs and are insignificant parts of the final product.

Example: A table lamp is assembled in the U.S. from American-made brass, an American-made Tiffany-style lampshade, and an imported base. The base accounts for a small percent of the total cost of making the lamp. An unqualified Made in USA claim is deceptive for two reasons: The base is not far enough removed in the manufacturing process from the finished product to be of little consequence and it is a significant part of the final product.
What items should manufacturers and marketers include in analyzing the percentage of domestic content in a particular product?

Manufacturers and marketers should use the cost of goods sold or inventory costs of finished goods in their analysis. Such costs generally are limited to the total cost of all manufacturing materials, direct manufacturing labor, and manufacturing overhead.

Should manufacturers and marketers rely on information from American suppliers about the amount of domestic content in the parts, components, and other elements they buy and use for their final products?

If given in good faith, manufacturers and marketers can rely on information from suppliers about the domestic content in the parts, components, and other elements they produce. Rather than assume that the input is 100 percent U.S.-made, however, manufacturers and marketers would be wise to ask the supplier for specific information about the percentage of U.S. content before they make a U.S. origin claim.

Example: A company manufactures food processors in its U.S. plant, making most of the parts, including the housing and blade, from U.S. materials. The motor, which constitutes 50 percent of the food processors total manufacturing costs, is bought from a U.S. supplier. The food processor manufacturer knows that the motor is assembled in a U.S. factory. Even though most of the parts of the food processor are of U.S. origin, the final assembly is in the U.S., and the motor is assembled in the U.S., the food processor is not considered "all or virtually all" American-made if the motor itself is made of imported parts that constitute a significant percentage of the appliances total manufacturing cost. Before claiming the product is Made in USA, this manufacturer should look to its motor supplier for more specific information about the motors origin.

Example: On its purchase order, a company states: "Our company requires that suppliers certify the percentage of U.S. content in products supplied to us. If you are unable or unwilling to make such certification, we will not purchase from you." Appearing under this statement is the sentence, "We certify that our ___ have at least ___% U.S. content," with space for the supplier to fill in the name of the product and its percentage of U.S. content. The company generally could rely on a certification like this to determine the appropriate country-of-origin designation for its product.
How far back in the manufacturing process should manufacturers and marketers look?

To determine the percentage of U.S. content, manufacturers and marketers should look back far enough in the manufacturing process to be reasonably sure that any significant foreign content has been included in their assessment of foreign costs. Foreign content incorporated early in the manufacturing process often will be less significant to consumers than content that is a direct part of the finished product or the parts or components produced by the immediate supplier.

Example: The steel used to make a single component of a complex product (for example, the steel used in the case of a computers floppy drive) is an early input into the computers manufacture, and is likely to constitute a very small portion of the final products total cost. On the other hand, the steel in a product like a pipe or a wrench is a direct and significant input. Whether the steel in a pipe or wrench is imported would be a significant factor in evaluating whether the finished product is "all or virtually all" made in the U.S.

Are raw materials included in the evaluation of whether a product is "all or virtually all" made in the U.S.?

It depends on how much of the products cost the raw materials make up and how far removed from the finished product they are.

Example: If the gold in a gold ring is imported, an unqualified Made in USA claim for the ring is deceptive. Thats because of the significant value the gold is likely to represent relative to the finished product, and because the gold an integral component is only one step back from the finished article. By contrast, consider the plastic in the plastic case of a clock radio otherwise made in the U.S. of U.S.-made components. If the plastic case was made from imported petroleum, a Made in USA claim is likely to be appropriate because the petroleum is far enough removed from the finished product, and is an insignificant part of it as well.
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If any of the parts are coming from overseas, except perhaps for nuts, bolts, screws, and gaskets, then the "Made in the USA" claim is unreasonable. If the tubing is being made in Taiwan, then certainly these products fail the test.

However, I think we generally agree that the product is not inferior. Some here have raved about the quality of the product, others have complained about fit and finish, not unlike just about anything we see here.

Is this something the FTC should be made aware of? Not my call. I am not a party of interest as I've not purchased from Fabspeed.

The OP still seems to be tap dancing around the question, which is unfortunate. The opportunity to explain, carefully, the content of some of their products is available, here and now in this forum.

Maybe some of their stuff is made 100% here. That can proudly say, "Made in USA" but only if the stainless is USA product too.

There's no fuzzy logic here. The rules are clear. I'm not a lawyer, just a manufacturer, but I understand pretty well what the FTC looks for when you make a Made in USA claim, and I don't think what we're seeing here is a plausible case for that, at least not yet.

D

HH11 · Oct 31, 2011

CCns23 said: ↑

I wonder how many parts in your Italian car aren't made in Italy?
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Lol. Nice jab. I only posted that because we are talking about 1 major part/product. I know that the header is composed of a few products, but its not quite like a car. In regards to my car, the only part I want to be Italian is the engine. The other countries are better at almost everything else.

Mattyrae · Oct 31, 2011

CCns23 said: ↑

Does it matter? If you're not happy with the explanation that's fine. But why keep beating this dead horse? You have both sides of the story now. Be an adult, draw your conclusions with the facts laid out in front of you, and move on.

And no, I have absolutely no affiliation with FabSpeed in any way except for the fact that we happen to be in the same county in PA. And they are on the complete other side of it...
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Another vote for CCns23 for President!

Mattyrae · Oct 31, 2011

CCns23 said: ↑

But you see, there in the wording lies the real issue. What is the definition of "MADE in the U.S.A?". If I buy a one part in Taiwan, and another from Germany, then yet another from Timbukto, but assemble those parts in the US wouldn't that technically mean the product was "MADE" in the US?

Just trying to rabble rouse. I think this nonsense has gotten out of hand and people need to focus on more important things like what the Mrs. is making for dinner tonight.
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True, it is getting cold up here, and I need to make sure I have scheduled my sprinklers to be blown out. Ooops, forgot to disconnect all my garden hoses too. Quick, I need to get off Ferrarichat.com and take care of the real important issues. Wait, do I have enough candy for the tricker-treaters coming by later, dang, see ya.

justinn · Oct 31, 2011

CCns23 said: ↑

I wonder how many parts in your Italian car aren't made in Italy?
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7

The 7 parts that look like crap, but never break

The other 3421 parts look great, but break constantly

Justin

CCns23 · Oct 31, 2011

justinn said: ↑

7

The 7 parts that look like crap, but never break

The other 3421 parts look great, but break constantly

Justin
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Haha....nice

THonda · Oct 31, 2011

A simple answer to the questions would be nice. Admit you cheated and let's move on.

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