2011 FORMULA 1 AIRTEL GRAND PRIX OF INDIA: RACE *** Spoilers ***

Letting?
Letting?

Seb did what Seb has done all year. Put enough daylight between himself and whoever's in second place to render DRS moot.

Face it. This year it's a race for second. In India Jensen won that one.

 

You missed a bit off your sentence I believe!

I've been facing that one for a long time now!

 

Well said!!

 

Someone who has never raced in F1. Martin Brundle put it better, much better. They are both at fault and it was a racing incident to begin with.

 

I assumed that the F Chat cognoscenti knew that bit already.

As have we all
Why not just concede first to Seb and save RB the travel costs?

 

Frankly that is BS and you know it Steve. He has earned his place unlike Kimi? You need to tone it down. LH is not the second coming. He had a bad day and he made the move. Enough. They both lost out. Waste of track space is JB over LH currently.

 

Agree'd and if some here would calm down with the insults and name calling we would all be better off. Yes Massa is no Alonso and Ferrari might replace him. Then what? Another #2 who doesnt get a good deal and watches FA's gearbox. Frankly the arrangement at Ferrari is a joke. I prefer the Mclaren way. They actually do race(both Mclaren drivers) for the most part and I am a Ferrari fan.

If Ferrari would just take my advice and hire Heiki Kovalainen all would be well

 

What next blame the Pope! LH is his own worst enemy and is letting JB ruin his year. Frankly Im a JB fan for his style and demeanor as a 'gentleman' race but he is not in LH's league in terms of speed. LH should be wiping the floor with him but he just cant resist a quick move on a small gap and doesnt exercise patience yet.

He will and when he does JB will be in his rearview. I dont like it but in my gut LH is the much quicker man. Thats not enough if you dont have the other elements to back it up. Will be a long break for him and I think he will come back strong next year no problem

 

Agreed. When Lewis can stop beating Lewis, he can go on and beat most anyone else.

Too much to call it a tragic flaw?

 

Tough call as his style and moves have worked well in the past. Maturity will come with adaptability in tow. Lets hope so as he does make races fun to watch, even as Id rather see others beat him to the flag. No doubting what his talent can provide.

I hope he has a long talk with his family and friends, real friends, and gets it right.

 

I hope he gets it together too but to rearrange your head that much takes a particular talent that not everyone possesses.

 

No!, I enjoy his post race interviews with Lee McKenzie too much!:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyFeg3swJ3g[/ame] (2:35 onwards especially )

Or:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xjua86_9-british-gp-sebastian-vettel-interview-post-race_sport (0:40 onwards [after the annoying advert!] )

And then there's this special feature:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyH_g8zFNLc[/ame]

 

Guys sorry but I love Jenson and he is whipping Lewis's ass, I am a fan of Hamiltons but face the facts guys

 

Two? Just my opinion... But, F1 has a driver, who is a talented former champion, that is now turning into one of the more dangerous F1 drivers ever on the track. His incidents involve many more than just Massa and if LH was not a former champ who just happens to be w/ McLaren they might have pulled his super license a while ago.

 

Your faith in the good intentions of the FIA is a bit stronger than mine.
Other than that we agree.

 

You're right.
He seems authentic and his joy infectious.

And he's nice to old ladies.

Duck&cover!

 

I am sorry but racing just does not work the way you suggest. That's why Massa was penalized - it was clear he was at fault.

It is not a game of who was in front and who was on line or off. If it was, a driver would simply need to stay on line and anytime someone did not get fully past and on the racing line in front, they would have to back off and get back behind the leader.

And then no passes would ever happen.

Racing just does not work the way you think.

 

The stewards probably just don't have the insight into racing that you do, I guess

 

Guys lets play nicely ok

 

??

 

I disagree. Racing does indeed work this way.

Check post #341, and you'll see a great example of an off-line driver on the inside, outbraking the leader who is on the racing line. Follower fights to an equal position, a great fight develops ... no contact ... and a great pass! Just one example, of passing by the rules This is EXACTLY how great racing ... and GREAT passing ... works.

In the case in question, Hamilton was off-line, and never fought to an equal position, much less got in front. Massa had the line, and was never challenged by a driver who fought to equal or front. The corner was Massa's, from beginning to end ... because he had the line, and he had the lead, from beginning to end. Therefore, he had no obligation to give up the position. And the obligation to avoid contact belonged to the follower, who failed to out-brake to an equal (or front) position. If your out-brake maneuver fails ... get out of the way of the leader!

Many others agree with me in this thread, as well as many pros ... including drivers ... referenced in post #381 (as well as BBC commentators).

I fully recognize that the stewards saw it differently. c'est la vie

Anyway, just repeating myself. Thanks for the support guys i'm out !

 

You will note that the stewards disagree, as you said.

As do the vast majority (in my non-scientific review) of the F1 media.

You would also notice that pretty much every single pass in F1 (other than DRS passes) take place when the following driver "sticks his nose" into where the leading driver would otherwise be. It is the nature of racing that the leading driver cannot simply pull a "lalalallala I don't see you lalalalala" and not change his actions one whit, crash, then blame the following driver because it was his job to make the pass without having to change a thing.

Racing just doesn't work that way. Never has, never will. It was even stated explicitly by Charlie Whiting at the last race (or perhaps the one prior) that it was expected that the leading driver give room to the following driver. The entire etymology of the term "racing room" is based on the fact that a leading driver cannot simply do whatever they would do if the following driver was not there, and any contact that results will be the following drivers responsibility.

 

Too early to call it a tragic flaw, but indeed it is a flaw. The problem is that he needs to mend fences more than anything else at this point (specifically with MS and FM, but I'm certain he's not going to win any driver popularity contests). I think he has driven with more restraint the second half of the season...it's just the Massa bugaboo that's done him in. I haven't seen the "bumper car" move used much anymore. That shows that he's willing to alter his style and be more respectful of others on the grid. He needs to solve the Massa issue and mend fences with MS if he wants to race free and clear like the other front-runners again.

 

Not true. Outside of Massa, LH's incidents have been:

Maldonado bumper car at Monaco
Clipped by Alonso from behind
Spun Webber at Canada
Crashed out by Jensen at Canada
Crashed out by Kobi at Spa


That's TWO incidents where he ran a driver off road and three where he was on the short end. Take Massa out of the equation and this is standard fare for a racing season.

 

Let's see, I said, "His incidents involve many more than just Massa..." Not true? Sorry, but that does not make sense, even you have cited 5 incidents that he was involved in with 5 other drivers, in most people's minds, I think that qualifies as many others. Not one, not a couple, not a few, hmmmm.... looks like many more to me and you're limiting your counting to this season. Looks to me, like he has a wheel to bump with many more than Massa. Should he be allowed to take out the whole field before I criticize him for it? Additionally, these were only the incidents where somebody was put off track or penalized for, not all of the less than stellar moves that have been considered by others, to be reckless and blatantly over-aggressive.

Why would his driving be the talk on the "street?"
It's not like we're trying to take a winner "down a peg."
He's been driving like this for longer than just this season.

Regards,
Bill