Looks like Stef got his wish after all.
Antonio Capristo has been good enough to post a break down of the production process for their exhaust systems along with many pictures. He has simply said: ...'95% of our raw materials are bought in Germany. the remaining 5% will be purchased abroad. Production 100% in Germany. German companies want to produce large quantities only, so we had to buy flanges in China and Taiwan....' Now that wasn't so hard was it? We can all draw our own conclusions why Fabspeed feel unable to be as clear in their answers, I know I have mine!
Yes, but he has lost some too. Even Rob thinks he might lose some valuable member. Hope everything will resume normal soon.
That's fine, but the post I replied to and quoted said that if they got the tubing from Taiwan, that they could not claim the headers were made in USA. I just illustrated exactly how that could be wrong, that they could easily import the tubing from anywhere and legally and truthfuly claim made in USA. Nowhere did I even attempt to speculate on how they actually do things, in fact I said we'd need to know exactly that to make any claims in either direction.
Yes I see, apologies. Easy to miss the quote being replied to and then take the response out of context.
Actually, the original allegation is broader: "All their products are manufactured in TAIWAN ! ... Fabspeed are just box movers and they never did any R&D on the F355/F360/F430 headers and exhaust parts...They just pretend doing R&D what I call serious cheating if not scamming customers." Pretty stern stuff.
Over a period of 15 years I have done many mods to my 996 Cab, 996 TT, Ferrari CS, Ferrari 430 Spider and F430 Scuderia, for whatever reason, for each of these cars I have bought a Fabspeed part, with which I was ultimately dissatisfied and removed, maybe I am just very stupid but I think after Car 5, I have learnt my lessons i.e no more Fabspeed, as Marketing vs Substance has its limits and there is a whole new world or competition out there in the tuning world.
No offense, but you are just bringing this up now, or you have brought this up after each unhappy purchase / experience?
except the test is "virtually all," not 80%. Negligible is another word they use for foreign content. IF all the RAW MATERIAL comes from Taiwan, then it is not negligible nor is it virtually all MADE IN USA. The test is not 80%. If the material from which it is made is not US, then the product is not US, UNLESS he lists, specifically, a contents label that shows what portions are US made and what are not, but that's a different standard than an unqualified Made in USA. D
Here is the link to The Federal Trade Commission's (FTC) website in regards to "Complying with the Made in USA Standard." http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard
How many of you guys think you bought a car made in the US and found out that it was built in Canada or Mexico? I have a Mini Cooper. It says "made in England". The engine though came from Brazil. I'm sure a lot of parts came from Germany, Spain, Romania, Poland, and even China. So, is it really "British" if was only assembled there? After all, BMW is a German company. I would say yes, it's British. But you could argue either way.
n Yes but do you really care? Some people do, some people dont. People will still buy fabspeed because it is reasonably priced and a decent product and at the end of the day that's why they have been successful. If their quality and performance results stand up then there shouldn't be an issue going forward for them.
And your point is? The window sticker clearly states where the car is made and where the components are from. Regardless of what one thinks they can easily find out what's made where. It's not like this case where the designer of a product is playing games and keeping people guessing as to origin when it's clear the exhausts are predominantly made in Taiwan of inferior metals.(based on numerous complaints including other forums dating back as far as '06)
Reminds me of a buddy who bought a Mercedes ML class back in the day. Thought he was buying a fine, German-made machine. Turns out that hunk o' junk was made in Alabama. We never did let him live that down.
That's not what the specifications say, there are no specific percentages. In my example where the tubing costs $100 and the finished manifolds cost what, $1700?, the foreign material makes up around 6% of the cost of the product. If the raw materials are then bent, polished and welded, I don't think the FTC or anyone else would be able to take issue with the claims. They gave an example of a clock radio where the petroleum to make the plastic was not US made and it would legitimately still be made in USA. I don't see this as vastly different as the raw materials make up a fraction of the finished goods in terms of value, which is what it states. The 80% was in reference to the gold ring where the imported gold makes up most of the value, and could not be claimed as made in the USA. But, as I said before, as long as they do what they are supposed to and they have a lifetime guarantee, I could give a crap what the semantics are. I'd much rather see dyno results than any list of foreign content or manufacturing process, CAD drawings or whatever other crap people are crying about. The proof is in the pudding, if they give a performance gain and don't melt down every 30k miles, I'll buy them when the factory manifolds go. If they can reduce costs by outsourcing some of the materials or even process without any loss in performance or warranty, fine. I'm not so obtuse as to think that the US is the best at everything or is worth the money for buying every single product. If the product in the US is better, I'll pay for it, if not I feel I'm wasting my money and just prolonging an unsustainable business model. I'm not entirely sure why I even got involved in this discussion as I was just researching hypothetical future manifold replacements on a car I don't pick up until saturday, but sometimes the internet sucks you in I guess. All I can say is if you're unhappy with fabspeed, pull the manifolds off, sell them and replace them with something you're happy with. If you have a set of (5.2) 355 manifolds you can no longer stand being on your car, let me know...
I don't have a point except that stuff comes from everywhere. "Regardless of what one thinks they can easily find out where it's made" --- so you agree that the US manufacturers do not aggressively tell you where the car comes from because the average Joe only knows it's "as American as apple pie" when he sees a Ford and Chevy and Cadillac label is on the front -- even if a large number of parts or the complete assembly is in Canada or Mexico. Are you outraged by this? I guess not. The real point is do you like the products or not. If you don't, don't buy them or support them. If you do, then you are happy. This seems much ado about nothing really. Some people like the products (and have said so in this thread) and others do not. It's no different with anything made now adays. Just because it's a country of origin outside the US doesn't make it inferior. What makes it inferior is that it's inferior no matter where it was sourced or made. Anyone who thinks that any product "made in America" is inherently better hasn't been paying much attention.
All I know is that Thanks to Jeremy from FabSpeed I have a pair of perfectly good working headers that replaced the CRAPPY OEM ferrari Headers. So if mine were made here or in Taiwan I am satisfied with their product, price and customer service. (He answered all my questions even during the installation process) BMW Z4 and X5 are considered German vehicles but are mostly made in the USA
