2011 FORMULA 1 ETIHAD AIRWAYS ABU DHABI GRAND PRIX: RACE *** SPOILERS ***

Except that he was wrong saying this:

He doesn't have a trophy from Austria.

 

But as you know, the playing field at Ferrari was in no way level. The number of P2/P3 positions during those years may be a more accurate indicator of RB's ability. Any stat genius want to provide data, for or against?

As for the Brawn year, Rubens was faster than JB in the early races but he had horrible mechanical luck. No doubt in the second half of the year he got smoked by JB, but did team orders have a role, as JB was ahead in the WDC at that point? I don't know...

Finally, I don't think RB has ever gotten smoked to the degree Webber has this year. I'm not sure there has been a worse performance by the WDC champ's teammate in the last 30 years. Webber's season is humiliating. Rubens never has been humiliated like this in a fair fight.

 

I see what you are saying in terms of pure stats, but everyone got their asses handed to them by SebV this year, not just Webber.

 

+1 how about that really mysterious Austria debacle!!

MS has plenty of 'wins' and I enjoyed the spectacle, but lets not ever forget the structure behind those. Im happy to see RB and Mclaren dont play that game as obviously.

 

I just ran a few years of Ferrari with MS and RB. I converted the 2000/2001/2002 points to 2011 regulation and normalized the seasons taking # of races into consideration.

This year, Webs has 59% of SebV's points.
In 2002, RB had 59% of MS's points.

So, Webs isn't getting his ass kicked as badly as might appear. If anything, he's the new old RB, minus the foot-stomping and whining, of course.

 

Since you ran 3 years,... I'm curious why you only chose to post 1 year. Care to post the other 2 years?

 

I had exactly the same thought. I may be mistaken, but I suspect the other two years didn't support the hypothesis so well.....

However, an even better comparison would be to plug the current points system into the results back then - Points down to 10th versus 6th is, I think, going to skew the results even more.

Any spreadsheet gurus want a little task?

Cheers,
Ian

 

I didn't save the doc, but IIRC, it was 59.9% and 59.6%.

 

You didn't pay attention to my point. It wasn't my point that RB always got his ass kicked by Schumi; I was merely countering Simon's assertion that no one in the last 30 years got their asses kicked as badly by a WDC teammate as did Webber, and that he didn't think RB got smoked as badly as Webs did this year. I could run all the years, but once again, that isn't my point. It could also be that RB had worse seasons against MS, but I'm too lazy to run the other years because I'd already made my point.

And once more, you didn't pay attention to my post. I used the current points system against prior standings.

 

I sincerely apologize - I read it the wrong way. My bad.

I think we'll just have to beg to differ on exactly what "getting smoked" means. Both of them have been dominated, one way or another, by their teammates.

Cheers,
Ian

 

I made a bloop somewhere. At any rate, RB points % against MS:

2000: 71.6%
2001: 59.6%
2002: 58.7%
2003: 69%
2004: 73.8%
2005*: 67.3%

*No WDC

 

/bangs head on desk.

Good thing I'm not a CPA.

 

That's interesting. I must admit, I never really thought RB was being dominated by MS back in the day, I suppose because RB was well know to be the #2 driver (?).

But lets also consider RB's WDC finish those years...

2000: 71.6%.......WDC = 4 (MS=1)
2001: 59.6%.......WDC = 3 (MS=1)
2002: 58.7%.......WDC = 2 (MS=1)
2003: 69%..........WDC = 4 (MS=1)
2004: 73.8%.......WDC = 2 (MS=1)
2005*: 67.3%......WDC = 8 (MS=3)

Interestingly, in his statistically worst years, he was still P2 / P3 in the WDC.

IMO Webber hurt his rep by making such a stink that all was equal and that he's not a number 2 driver. He's right though,... he's a number 4 driver at best!

 

lol

 

Not really all that interesting. Those were the years that no other team showed up to challenge for the WDC.

 

OH. Like this year.

 

I'm guessing that you are either willfully ignorant or are actually ignorant.

 

When you resort to personal attacks, you show you have no winning argument.

FWIW, I was joking.

 

Let's all take a deep breath and cool the jets for a while. I would hate to give some advice to my fellow mods.

thanks

 

Actually Vettel saved the race for me when his tire blew up.

 

Interestingly the only teammates that ever outscored him were Schumi (and last time I checked not too many of Schumi's teammates beat him) and Button, so where exactly did you come up with that statement?

It's time for him to hang up the F1 shoes and start racing in DTM or ALMS etc., but you guys kill me with the RB bashing. I was just glad to see Schumi fall futher behind his young teammate. LOL

MB

 

Fact is both RB and Schumi belong to an era of drivers who have now been superseded by a newer generation. Time for them both to hang it up and make space for more young talent to come through. And while they're at it, they can take Trulli with them...

 

I do tend to agree, although I like the fact MS has given it another go.

 

+1 time for some folks to move on. Felipe will join them in 2013 as well.

 

Are you saying that Massa will quit after Ferrari?

I doubt that very much. I see him becoming another Irvine/Barrichello dabbling around in midfield cars for a while and slowly regressing to the end of the grid.

As much as I dislike the guy, I have no problem with him sticking around in F1. Just not in a Ferrari please.