Was IRL such a bad thing to the hater's?

Consider this (And please be open minded if you hate the NASCAR taxicabs as well) Would we have a now 3 time Nascar champ had IRL never come into being? Tony likely would never got past USAC and had some mundane job by now. And the sad part is he likely would had ran well in CART , just never given the opportunity. And there is NO question of his drive and desire to race .

 

The .1RL killed REAL AOWR, nothing good that came about because of it is worth losing CART...









Rob


I take great pride in my little piece of CART.
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REALLY ? Might depend on what the true definition of what open whell racing is , ever heard of winged or wingless sprintcars , World of Outlaws or even seen a SuperModified race? If your definition of open wheel is strictly on road courses , just feel free to tell us how guys running formula ford , F2000 or even at this point F1 , is as far ash actually getting PAID to drive , not having to bring money to RENT rides while skimming the till to pay your living expenses . Even F1 test rides have to be bought these days !

 

agreed the france family's spurning of tony george to start the irl did create another feeding series to nascar. it also destroyed OWR and dumbed down all US auto racing be on par with the WWF. i pray the new indycar can provide a technology proving platform for manufacturers and get racing back to what it should be.

nascrap has peaked. i'd bet good money that the 'secret fines' story this week will be first of many more scandals to come.

 

cream rises to the top...I think Tony would have made it to NASCAR anyway. he can talk all day about being a Hoosier and loving the Indy 500, if he wanted to be there he would

CART was doomed, the IRL just accelerated that process

btw Rob, that car rocks

 

Tony Stewart - by hook or by crook - WOULD have made it to NASCAR regardless of the IRL, he's that good.

To be perfectly honest, I couldn't care less about NASCAR or Tony Stewart. CART was AWESOME, the IRL could never touch it. Granted, CART may have been doomed for a number of reasons, but Tony George's ego shouldn't have accelerated it.

What he's wrought is a classic Pyrrhic victory - there's nothing left.

 

Tony would had risen to the top? Of Where ? I would guess he would be doing World of Outlaw races and USAC Silver crown at best ! Yes , he would make a very nice living like Kinser's , Swindells and others but even when Steve Kinser got shots at Indy and Nascar , it was because a sponsor (Quaker State) was writing checks , not a pure talent deal liek in the 60's where talent alone got you a ride. Just look at all the international sportscar and occasionaly F1 guys in the 60's in FIA and F! competition , and they weren't bringing a suitcase of cash.

 

Jeff Gordon, who graduated out of USAC before Stewart, went to NASCAR. the trend was already established; American open-wheelers for the most part couldn't get CART drives, so they went to NASCAR. (I remember an interview Gordon did where he stated flat-out that he couldn't get a returned call from Penske, Newman Haas, Ganassi, Patrick, Rahal, et al, while the NASCAR guys said "come on down!")

this was before the IRL...remember, one of TG's reasons for launching the IRL was all the good talent was going to NASCAR.

Stewart would have ended up in NASCAR one way or another. I think the IRL was just a little pit stop for him.

 

I stopped following U.S. OWR specifically because of IRL bs and what they did to the CART teams at Indy. I use to follow CART as much as I do F1 but no longer.

 

IRL sucked. Just plot race attendance, TV ratings, and ad revenue to get the true answer. Look at the names of the sponsors on the IRL cars now vs CART back in the 80's/early 90's.

Joe's Vacuum Repair would never have been the title sponsor of a CART car.

 

The car owners of CART killed US open wheeled racing, and pissed on the race fan.

By scheduling their event in Michigan, the same day as the Indy 500, when fans already bought their 500 tickets, was just adding insult the fan's injury. Watching their first lap embarrassment brought little consolation.

 

Talk about karma ! Not only did they do an event out of spite , but their prediction that Indy was going to be a crashfest and what happened ? The CART guys didn't even complete a lap without a massive wreck !

 

Perhaps Kinser wasn't good enough to "make" it in Indy - isn't that a possibilty? Sure, he's a great driver - a legend, but going from dirt to asphalt doesn't always translate. Second, as noted by another poster, Gordon made it without going Indy.

I reject the idea that Indy is the stepping stone for NASCAR, that's the thinking that helped accelerate the demise. Indycar / CART was the PINNACLE of American racing, not the other way around. My how times have changed.

You asked for open-minded input - you are coming off as defensive and challenging others' statements. Rest assured that MANY people remain angry at the actions taken by Tony George and the IRL, and those that enjoy the IRL have to accept that. CART was a real threat to F1 back in the 80's and 90's, the split left scorched earth and American Open Wheel is a laughing stock now.

 

With respect to car owners, partially true.

With respect to the Michigan event - 100% INCORRECT. The "split" happened LONG before that - the seeds date back to the formation of CART from USAC and were never soothed over.

CART needed a single overlord - one powerful enough to satisfy both team owners and track owners. Without that, the inmates were running the asylum and were inflamed with the events that transpired over the years (accusations of cheating, rising costs, etc.)

 

(No person killed open wheel racing in the US more than Tony George) X 1,000,000

 

Wait a minute. You guys say open wheel racing in America is dead? Really? Dang, that's a real disappointment.

And I've gone and spent all those weekends watching every single IndyCar race for longer than a decade. Not to mention the races I attended live. Heck, even packed up and moved to Indy to be here for the Month of May. I guess I shouldn't have gone and done that. I just didn't know open wheel racing was dead.

I'm betting all those guys racing karts, 1/4 midgets, midgets, sprint, outlaw races are going to be really bumped out to find that open wheel racing is dead.

I wonder if I can get a refund on the tickets already purchased for next year?

 

Plenty of people reporting Elvis sightings.

 

I don't recall saying it's dead - but it's a laughing stock for sure. In fact, short of NASCAR and the NHRA, almost ALL of American-based racing is experiencing a down turn. That's a FACT - not subject to debate. It's hard to get sponsors, it's hard to get spectators, it's hard to get RATINGS.

Back in the good ol' days, that was never a problem. It was an embarrassment of riches.

The point of the thread - in my interpretation - was to ask if the IRL was so bad to the Haters, not a defense of the IRL. The question has been answered - "YES", it's bad.

 

What's your point?
So what if Tony never got out of USAC - it happens all the time in every series you can name, have you ever given consideration that not everyone wants to race in the top ecehlons of the sport? That some are happy doing what they are doing? No, you never thought of that.

+1

tony would have risen to the top - or not. It happens all the time, for one guy that 'makes it' there are thousands that don't. Guess what: that happens in EVERY sport you can name, but motorsports is also $$$ driven, unlike stick and ball sports.

Awesome, talk down to us, that'll get us to consider your argument.
As I said, some folks LIKE what they are doing, some folks don't want to 'move up', I play basketball at the gym with some very good players, they don't have a desire to try out for the NBA, is that bad?
I have three close friends that between them have 15 nascar series championships between them, and they don't have the desire to go race in the Cup series, the Truck series, or the Nationwide series, does that make them bad people?

Some people have the desire to do the best in what they want to do, I am in IT, but I don't have the desire nor care to be a CIO, let alone a CEO, but that doesn't make me a bad person or a person that lacks desire.

 

What you call a "FACT" I see as a personal opinion of your own and maybe others. If you want to talk facts we can do that. Let's look at next season since if AOWR was spiraling the drain, as you suggest, then we'd see teams doing the same.

IndyCar:
1) 2012 sees a new chassis, 2013 will see add'l aero kits options.
2) 2012 sees 3 engine manufacturers
3) As of today, we have 26 confirmed driver/car combos. Actual possibility to have 37 driver/car combos.
4) 2012 sees current teams expanding programs and new teams entering.
Those are facts and they do not support your argument.

NASCAR has also experienced a downturn in attendance. People have less disposable income for entertainment.

Those are FACTS so per your stated logic, you cannot debate them. [/sarcasm]

 

I didn't say it was spiraling down the drain, again you missed what I said. I said it's a laughing stock - and it is. You can bury your head in the sand, but that's not debatable. I'm not sure how far back you go, but I've been a fan since the pre-CART USAC days - what you have today is a shell of what it was.

Chassis means nothing. Engine manufacturers mean nothing. 26 cars is promising, but the TV isn't there. The sponsors aren't there. The fannies in the seat aren't there. We're not talking "attendance down" a la NASCAR, we're talking non-existent.

Back in the good days, you were hard pressed to get a ticket for the crummy Meadowlands GP - it sold out FAST. Today, you can get a ticket to an IRL race by walking up to the booth the day of the race. HUGE difference.

You can get defensive all you want - that just proves my point. There's nothing to get defensive about - it's a shell of what it was. Not debatable and save your sarcasm.

 

BEER SUMMITT.

rdefabri, ZUL8TR; ZUL8TR, rdefabri.
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they acted stupidly?

 

At no time has my head been buried in the sand, or in the past. My glass is half-full.
There were more butts in the stands at Indy in 2011. That is a positive.
I don't believe IndyCar is a laughing stock. Maybe to you, but not to everyone. So, as long as there are differing views, it is debatable. You cannot stop that. I'm not being defensive, just pointing out facts. Pretty simple in my book.

 

Bill....I'm telling....you posted an Obama pic! LOL!