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456 dead ecu

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by joakim_adolfson, Oct 24, 2011.

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  1. joakim_adolfson

    joakim_adolfson Karting

    Sep 19, 2009
    168
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Full Name:
    Joakim Adolfson
    #1 joakim_adolfson, Oct 24, 2011
    my little Ferrari has had the tendancy to stop working on the right bank during normal running fr a while mostly when under light load at about 1800rpm, the symphtoms are that it is running gr8 and the suddenly looses the right bank for a couple of seconds and then restarts.

    Finally though it seems that the ECU has finally given up as neither the CEL or SDL does come on when turning on the ignition.

    My question is then is there a right or left ECU or are they the same, the part lists seem to point in that direction but I'd like to know before I go out hunting for a replacement.

    //joakim
     
  2. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2010
    1,723
    Amsterdam
    #2 166&456, Oct 24, 2011
    Joakim, do you mean the CEL ECU or the Motronic?
    The CEL ECUs are completely identical left and right and I think the motronics are also. I would be surprised if there was a difference between those Bosch ECUs. Easily checked by the part no.

    I would suspect the Motronic ECU as one of the last items and the CEL ECU as the first. Are you sure wiring, connectors, fusebox, relays etc are all in check?
     
  3. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,437
    #3 360modena2003, Oct 24, 2011
    A defective CEL ECU can cause the engine to stop operating??
     
  4. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2010
    1,723
    Amsterdam
    #4 166&456, Oct 25, 2011
    If it detects prolonged or excessive overheating (not sure what its criteria are) then yes it can shutdown that bank to prevent further damage. Generally it will only happen on one side so the engine will still work, just with a LOT less power.

    These CEL ECUs are a known issue as they can take in water and get damaged internally. When I got my car I resealed them at the bottom, just to be sure.
     
  5. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,437
    #5 360modena2003, Oct 25, 2011
    Are these the ones located by the door (underneath the hood/front fender)?
     
  6. joakim_adolfson

    joakim_adolfson Karting

    Sep 19, 2009
    168
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Full Name:
    Joakim Adolfson
    #6 joakim_adolfson, Oct 25, 2011
    It is the Motronic which is dead, the light doesn't even light up on the instrument panel anymore.
    If I swap the left to the right side the right side of the engine works and so forth.

    Anyone out there who has gotten one in stock? or anyone knows any company that fixes these?
     
  7. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,437
    #7 360modena2003, Oct 25, 2011
    That is very strange that the Motronic fails. But obviously if you swapped them out and it works, then it can only be the Motronic.

    I have heard that the "chip tuners" (real ones) can be a good source to get ECU's fixed. I had this done on an old Porsche.
     
  8. joakim_adolfson

    joakim_adolfson Karting

    Sep 19, 2009
    168
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Full Name:
    Joakim Adolfson
    #8 joakim_adolfson, Oct 25, 2011
    I found a local company that mends motronic boxes for most early models and this one should no different, I'll give them a call tomorrow to see what they have to say.

    :)
     
  9. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,437
    #9 360modena2003, Oct 25, 2011
    Fantastic. Keep up updated.

    You should also try to figure out the cause.

    Have you jump started your car lately?
     
  10. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2010
    1,723
    Amsterdam
    #10 166&456, Oct 25, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2011
    Sounds like a bad solder joint. You may be able to identify that yourself but you can also have it fixed by a shop. Be careful of what you tell them what they're fixing.

    The Air Flow Meters of the early 456 seem to be the same as the 2.3 and 2.9 models of Saab and Volvo of the same era. The ECU is possibly the same model as well, but very unlikely it can be directly swapped, it will certainly be mapped differently with a different redline and injection field. If the worst comes to the worst you may be able to just swap the components that make it unique to Ferrari. Unlikely that will make economic sense though.

    http://www.expressauto24.net/Mass-Air-Flow-Sensor-0280213012-SAAB-9000-Volvo-740-960-II/nl
     
  11. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,437
    #11 360modena2003, Oct 25, 2011
    The ECU also needs need "input" from the Crank position sensor, knock sensor, and engine temp sensors.

    Would be interesting to see if the ECU is similar.
     
  12. joakim_adolfson

    joakim_adolfson Karting

    Sep 19, 2009
    168
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Full Name:
    Joakim Adolfson
    #12 joakim_adolfson, Oct 26, 2011
    the ecus also work in a master/slave fashion which makes the Ferrari unit unique together with what BMW did for their V12. I think the testarossa/f50 uses the same units.
     
  13. F456M

    F456M F1 Rookie

    Jan 8, 2010
    3,696
    Oslo
    Full Name:
    Erik
    #13 F456M, Oct 26, 2011
    Hi Joacim,

    these guys had a nearly complete 456 1995 that they sell in parts...

    http://www.hedbergsbilskrot.se/index.php

    Give them a call. MAybe you can borrow an ECU and see if the problem disappear.

    Good luck

    Erik Eriksen
    Oslo
    :)
     
  14. 736973

    736973 Karting

    Nov 25, 2007
    75
    #14 736973, Oct 26, 2011
    Anyone know if the 456 M ecu are the same on both sides, can I plug the right one to the left and left to right?
     
  15. joakim_adolfson

    joakim_adolfson Karting

    Sep 19, 2009
    168
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Full Name:
    Joakim Adolfson
    #15 joakim_adolfson, Nov 21, 2011
    Problem solved.

    The right Motronic power circuit was dead and probably had been bad for a long long time even way before I bought the car a couple of years ago.

    The Motronics on the 456 works in a light Master/Slave fashion with communication between the units just used for synchronization besides that they work stand alone. This problem was probably also the root cause of earlier SDL problems since the reference voltage was very messed up.

    Anyway the company that helped me can be found here http://www.atech2.com/in-english.html,. since they lacked the proper diagnostics of the Ferrari system which is very rare the units was sent as a pair to Bosch in Germany for full functional control.
    The cost of fixing the unit was around 550euros including freight and 1 years warranty.

    The engine now feel solid and it was a joy to run it extremely fast and dead slow over the weekend, this was the best spent money I have done on anything since buying the car 2 years ago..

    PS: these guys seem to fix all sort of electronics to cars, including vendors like Mikuni, Bosch, Marelli and so a double thumbs up!
     

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