208 turbo rebuild and modification

Just wanted to see what the TWM setup looks like on the Countach. Looks like a whole different looking setup.

Thanks Jack.

 

I use twm on my gt40 also, they make replacement throttle bodies for many different carb set ups, if your going to upgrade to EFI..........I'm expecting some negative feedback with that remark.

Chris I would think you will see a 15-20% increase in HP by going full sequential efi over cis.

 

subscibed . Thanks for sharing!!!!

 

I would like to see a pic of your shop.You used busa itb on the ray no Im guessing some time ago.Was there a downside to the busa that made you go twm on the 208? The black/grey Boxer paint is stealth,very hard for smoky to see in low light,very Italian Stiletto.Are you an Engineer? Thank You

 

My shop is very crowded but I have completed a good deal of work in it over the years. All my cnc equipment (water jet, laser and mill) is at my business, I wish I had a bigger building so everything is in one area.

Here are some new pictures of the motor, as you can see I am working with the plumbing of the manifold vacuum pressure feed, also starting to wire the engine, all the engine wiring will go through two plugs, this big plug will feed coils injectors and all the sensors, the other plug will be for crank and cam sensors only.

Someone asked about wheres my water pump, well here it is and the bypass thermostat which both will be in the front of the car. One of the advantages of an electric pump is you can have a time off relay so when you turn the car off the pump stays on for a amount of time to take all the heat out of the engine and turbos. I have this same system on my GT40, it has a 427 Dart aluminum block and aluminum heads, you would be surprised how well this system works.
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Barnyard, I am a electronic tech not an engineer but like mechanics as much as electronics. I think your asking why did I go to individual throttle bodies rather than a single throttle bodies with a plenum and runners to each cylinder. Well, it would have been more cost effective to stay with the old system but if you noticed the difference between the 288 GTO and the F40 is the F40 has individual throttle bodies. I believe these will help on the low rpm range move air more effectively into the cylinder, and I was not happy with the fuel rail arrangement of the stock Ferrari plenum. Hope I made this understandable.

If your asking about the R5, the throttle bodies where a friend of mine, I ended up using a single GM throttle body with a water to air intercooler of a GMC Typhoon on the R5, it fit and functioned much better. I sold the R5 almost 2 years ago, I really miss the car but had other priorities that needed the funds.

Thank you for your post.

 

Jack, in the 3rd picture, those blue tubes in the intakes, are those for the IAC set up?

 

They will feed a manifold which a number of lines will go, the IAC is not one of them I'm not going to run an IAC as it could give a false signal to the MAP sensor at idle but includes the fuel pressure regulator, boost gauge, cruise control, boost control from the engine management, and the vacuum booster on the brakes which will have a check valve. On your manifolds you will have these same ports, I drilled and tapped these to 10-32 and use 3/16 lines. It's important to have a steady as possible signal for the MAP sensor, all 8 is best. If you had a intake that was joined together like the Gt40 or the old system you could use a IAC

 

I don't have any ports like that on mine. Someone had told me I might have to drill into the manifolds but to tell you the truth, I think I'm all done drilling.
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Bad news Chris your going to have drill in order for the map sensor to get a good reading. Sorry for bad news, yours has the place where they should be.

 

Jack,

I am loving that 208.
Interesting engineering too.

I had, and sold ( couldn't run it in California ) a NORWOOD Turbo QV, Mondial Cabriolet.
It ran factory pistons, 1.0 Bar boost and Haltech fired port injectors.

Edwardo

 

Thanks Edwardo, I know of one of the turbo 308s that Bob built for a Texas furniture manufacturer, he said it was quicker and faster than his TR. You have to love forced induction.

 

I had a day in the shop yesterday so I digitized the bolt holes on the front cam covers then cut a piece of 3/8" 6061 aluminum plate with the water jet to visualize the location of the alternator and the AC compressor, as you can see I'm still messing around with the final cut. Having a remote mount water pump sure helps out with room and an alternative mounting for both. Using a denso AC compressor and putting where the alternator use to be is a plus. The turbo for the back side of the engine will go in the area where the old AC compressor use to be. I want the front mounting plate to be rigid enough to mount the alternator and the mount for the turbo but not so big is ugly. I will post pictures of the final cut.

Also I shortened the lines coming off the manifold for the MAP and other accessories, this frees up room for wiring and plumbing. You can see on of the hoses that goes to the remote mount water pump.
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Jack, that's some.....I don't know what right term to use but.....wild work you are doing.

It's so much out of my league that I'm just going to sit here quiet and watch you do your thing.



Where's my chair?

 

Chris are right its out there, but having done this before I realize there are problems that arise by trying to make things modern. The problems of old technology will be almost eliminated, the ferrari water pump (early models) has a history of low mileage before the seals leak there are a couple factors for this but they normally don't last as long a major on the motor (30k mile), many people don't pay attention to this and big problems start after the motor overheats a couple times. The alternator is a 55 amp Bosch which is fine for OLD stuff but add EFI, DIS, electric water pumps, better lights a stereo with a amp and it adds up to much for a 55 amp and they will fry on some dark road in the middle of no where and some big hairy guy will show up with his tow truck and smile with both teeth showing. Welcome to Arkansas! HA! This is a 105 amp GM which can be found any where, the AC compressor is Denso and 10 times better than the HUGE factory unit of the 70-80s and it found on many different models of cars and which also can be purchased over the counter, I like Sanden also but its to much trouble to make mounts for. I am not saying you will have ANY of these problems, but I have in the past, this is the best way to get rid of them. This will run like a brand new Ferrari and be reliable.

Sit back and watch, if you got a weak stomach beware.

 

Here is the finished product, looks pretty good and will serve the purpose.
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Very nice work Jack. You going to paint that black to match the cam covers?

 

Jack, I am intrigued by the remote water pump. What is the one you are using rated at? GPM rated. Also, how do you manage thermostatic control over engine temp? The bypass thermostat that I could find was Autozone Part Number: 3577 Duralast rated at 170 degrees or Part# 3578 rated at 180 degrees or 3579 at 185 degrees? Is that what you are using?

 

Chis I was thinking of power coating it the aluminum color. Whats your thoughts? I have one of those inexpensive Eastwood's power coating systems and an old oven in the back of the shop that I use.

Robert I'm using the 35 GPM Meziere with a BMW bypass thermostat which I think is 180-185 degree. Its the same one I use on all my cars including the GT40 which uses a 55 GPM pump. I will use the General Purpose Output (GPO) of the computer to control the radiator fan, I prefer to use block temperature to control the radiator fan rather than the the radiator mounted switch which is slow in reacting to engine temperature rise. You can do the same thing with one of those variable temperature controlled fan controls and put the sensor on the output of the engine coolant or the block.

 

Seems every town has one of those "good ol boys" LOL!

I think black will go good. It will blend in nice with the covers.

 

The parts are back in NJ if anyone is interested (before I get motivated and put them on my car, that is).

 

Thanks, great project you have going there.

 

I spent a good part of a day trying to figure how to make them work by water jetting out an adapter, it just would not work. Cast iron is the best material for turbo manifolds. I just wish I had 4 valve heads. You have a very rare item Paul, you sure you don't want to put it on your 4 valve?

 

Nice work!! Lost

 

Nice work indeed. I do have a question, is it ok for a serpentine belt to run without support over such a distance from alternator to compressor, or would you need a third idler bearing?
It seems a greater distance than any applications I've seen, you may want to check that.
I would for sure devise some kind of heat shield for the compressor, too; that looks like a very hot place for it to be.
BTW, does the engine turn clockwise or counterclockwise from this view?