My dino won't start for the first time since I've had it. Battery is fine, fuel pump whirrrs but absolutely no sound when I turn the key, not even a "click". So I have to sort that out. But thats not the question. Here's the question. When this happened, the first thing I did was check all the fuses. I noticed the big flat fuse attached to the firewall was blown. I figured "case solved". No such luck, I replaced it and it made no difference. So, since it appears this fuse may have been blown for who-knows how long, what is that big fuse for? Seems everything ran fine without it unless it did blow today. Thanks! The fuse I'm talking about is the one missing from John's pic here, it fits in the copper clips, although his appears upside down compared to mine. Sorry, can't find a better pic. Image Unavailable, Please Login
I blew this fuse way back when in the later 1980s. I do not remember what it was for. If I get a chance I'll check my wiring diagram and see if I can figure it out. You might want to post a picture of the fuse. I think it is a big flat fuse (80 A), right? The small fuse is an 8 A. I just took the cover off and looked at the cover to get the amp rating for the fuses. I is raised lettering on the cover. I also did not see a wire/capacitor in the location of your picture. Not that I don't have the, I just did not see them. Going out to try to find/get my wiring diagram now.
According to my wiring diagram the large fuse is 60A. I must have read the wording on the cover incorrectly and mistook a 60 for 80. It says the fuse set 60/8 is for the alternator. You do have the cover and the new 60 A fuse, that are missing from the picture?
Underneath the fuse box closest to the front of the car is a small 1inchX1inch box. The box top faces the front of the car with wires out the bottom facing the back of the car. Let me know if you can not find this and I can try to take a picture. This is labled on my wireing diagram is the alternator regulator. This is tied to your ignition key to your starter. If I am reading this diagram correctly your key may turn on your lights/fuel pump through a separately fused wire but not send a signal to the starter that wire goes through this alternator regulator. It could be bad prevent your starter from engaging. It would not even click. The only other this is there is something messed up with your key switch. Mine is messed up and will need to be fixed. My problem is that the starter runs full time until I remove a wire from the key switch after the car starts. ps: I want to let you know I am NOT an electrician but this is how the diagram reads to me.
I worked on a friend's Tipo M (I don't recall what series your car is, Uro. My Tipo E has the open/original fuse box, but is missing its cover) that was also missing the box. 'appeared to never have had one. At any rate, when we had the alternator rebuilt, we added modern 60A/8A holders to protect the electrical system (and the car!). 'jselevan' had this comment in another post about a car that was also missing the fuse: "I am curious about the absence of the large 60 amp fuse on the firewall. This is the main current conduit to the car's system bus. All current comes from Rome (the alternator), and gets to the amp meter via the 60 amp fuse. Where is your alternator plugged into?" Further, "The 8-amp fuse on the fire wall is used to protect the field current circuit. Current from the regulator (originally in the red box under the dash) goes through this 8-amp fuse to the field windings of the alternator." Here's the whole thread: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180155&highlight=60+amp+dino Here's a reasonable replacement: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189438&highlight=60+amp+dino Heck, type in "60-amp" (or other options) in the 'Search' box, above, for other discussions. Lots of good info out there. Keep us posted, Coop
If I have my limited electrical knowledge correct, the 60/8 fuses, and alternator should have nothing to do with the starter as long as your battery is OK/charged. The alternator/fuses involve the charging of the battery. You should be able to start your car and run it for a while with NO alternator. It will run until the battery drops in charge. I've done this. That's how I found out I had a blown 60 A fuse.
the photo I posted is borrowed from John "Corbani's Corner". My digital camera has been....borrowed...or else I would post a pic of the fuse. I agree, I think this does not have to do with my starter, I need to look for faulty fround etc. It is flat, about 3 cm tall, 2 cm wide made of two fiber cores with copper plate wrapped around each end and a wire fuse down the middle. I'll see if I can get my camera returned.... similar to this internet pic: http://www.superformance.co.uk/a-246/electrical.htm Image Unavailable, Please Login
Would recommend to rebuild the fusebox for a Midi 60A fuse - those fuses are easy to source and do not pose such a risk to start a fire as the original ones, which tend to corrode easily and then get quite hot. The conversion is easy to do, as the new fuse is just mounted by two screws and you can reuse the two blade connectors from the original fuse for the connectors (see image). Re no start, fuel pump works, anything else that works when you turn the ignition on? If the starter is the only thing not working, it might be a defect of the ignition lock (starting position) or the wire coming from terminal 50 on the lock and going to the starters relay switch. The starter supply itself is directly wired to the battery, that connection is usually ok. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thanks for the info. Now to start the detective work! that looks like a good solution with the Midi fuse.
1. Remove the original large fuse holder by drilling out each rivet, then you can pull out the two copper parts. 2. Cut each part down for reusing the male tab connector part, and drill a screw hole as in the image. 3. Use a midi fuse as template for the screw positions, then drill two holes through the body where the screw/nuts are visible in the picture. 4. Use two countersink 5 mm screws (Allen or Phillips) installed from the back, make sure they are slightly recessed and are not in contact with the firewall when mounted. Layout: Countersink Screw -> Fuse Box Mounting Plate - Male Tab Connector - Locking Washer - Nut - Midi Fuse - Locking Washer - Nut You need to modify the original fuse mounting baseplate with a dremel to create some space for the Midi fuse, especially when the baseplate is already deformed due to heat. Midi fuses are available in several current ratings, 60A is correct for the factory alternator, if you have an alternator with a higher capacity you might want to use an 80A midi fuse. good luck, Adrian
You, my friend, are an excellent internet mechanic. I found a loose wire at the ignition switch, back in place, started right up! THANK YOU!!!!!!!
My mechanic said virtually no other cars on the road have a large fuse in that position and they just cause trouble, so he took it out of the circuit (by wiring across it, I presume)
Jim, most other cars don't have the alternator next to the fuel tank and the charge wire running across the length of the car/passenger cabin. IMHO, the fuse makes sense, and from my experience the only trouble is corrosion of the old blade fuseholder, which should be updated as above.
Where did Dave's post go? He asked for pic of how close the alt wire was to the header, below. Also, interestingly, when the big fuse blows it curls the ends of the wire, second pic. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
it's over here: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=141036813#post141036813 two similar threads, eh?
Wouldn't worry about that, it's just the protection sleeve which was not secured at the end and then started to unravel. The black shrink sleeve on the connector is ok, so that's a good sign.
Good points. I'll pull the box down and see if there's a wire running behind it. If not I'll ask the mechanic what he did. Thanks.
Almost the same as I was going to post. Corbani turned us onto this problem years ago, that the electrical contacts behind the ignition key cylinder are prone to wear and shorting. Last Aug I had a short in this Bosch part and it wasn't pretty but my car has a battery master shutoff that I got to quickly so all was OK. Three electrical problems for a Dino owner to keep an eye on: - Loose ammeter wires behind dash causing shorts, possible fire - Worn ignition contacts on back of Neiman ignition key cylinder causing shorts, possible fire - Alternator 60 Amp fuse, doesn't blow, causing Alternator to be damaged Also, would recommend installing a battery master cutoff Thank for the referral of my post, the above 60 AMP Hi-FI fuse is now on four years without a problem
