US GP in Austin Discussion and Speculation...

The thing is though that Bernie does have another us race, the one thats going to be in New Jersey.

 

That is some funny stuff there!

Oh, and the Bandit got the job done against some long odds... Here's to attending a natural terrain, purpose built race track in Austin for an F1 race in 2012.

I don't understand all the folks jumping on the NJ bandwagon like it is a done deal. There are a lot of things to be done there before a race - including a huge investment to get local roads ready for a race. Having just lived through the Baltimore Indy Car/ALMS race and its lingering debt/fingerpointing by organizers, the city, and contractors, I see many hurdle$ to come for NJ.

 

With all due respect to Tex - I like the guy, I really do - but he's looking at it from a worker perspective, not as a businessman.

And he's been flat out mistaken on various aspects of this project. Maybe it's wishful thinking, or maybe it's not appreciating the scope of this project... but whatever the reason behind it, it's still wrong. Case in point is the power - I said it was going to be a significant job and would require major upgrades. I was told I don't know what I am talking about, and just a few HV overlead lines will handle it, and I don't know how low power requirements of racetracks are. Result? They put in a whole new substation to handle the massive power requirements.

I certainly don't know everything, but I sure don't make stuff up just because it plays well on the Interwebz

 

Equity on the land is just a guess - who knows, maybe there's no more equity left. But we do know that Bernie laid out the deal that was beyond what the original deal was, and COTA said no. Bernie told us he refused their proposes contract and said they can sign and pay or not. We learn that at the last moment (literally hours before the banks close) COTA wires the money into FOM's account. That certainly appears like COTA folded and agreed to Bernie's deal.

Tavo and Bernie stated that COTA failed to fulfill various obligations. He specifically mentioned payments that were late and had been extended many times and remained unpaid.

No, you think that but you're mistaken. Bernie has COTA by the balls. If he refused their contract, they lose $100 million. If they refused his contract, he says "no biggie, so we don't do Austin in 2012". What does that cost Bernie? Nothing. The teams are whining about the # of races anyway, and he has NYC in 2013 anyway. It's no skin of Bernie's back of they don't make it. For COTA, it would be fatal.

Bernie has a US F1 race - two, apparently. As for "how many businesses..." - you're not thinking about this as a businessman. Disassociate the emotional aspect of this for a moment. Bernie has a product that is highly in demand, many more people want to buy it than he has product to sell. He doesn't hand out contracts to everyone who wants to give him money... not only that, he has another USGP. He doesn't need Austin. He will take it, provided it's interesting. Simply wanting to pay Tavo's old fee isn't necessarily interesting.

As for securing the full value of the contract - again - you're putting way too much stock in what COTA brings to the table. Without Bernie, COTA does not exist. Without COTA, Bernie has one USGP instead of two. There is a large disparity of power there, way in Bernie's favor. We know Bernie told COTA to jump and we know COTA jumped. We don't (and probably won't) know exactly how high, but it still happened. It is not trivial for FOM to just change the calendar on a whim. And replacing a race with another takes a couple of years worth of effort. That is why Bernie told FOM that simple pre-payment of annual fees wasn't good enough and gave them a week to see things his way. And that's why COTA eventually realized their place in all this and played ball

 

I don't see how COTA could violate a contract they werent even party to;Original contract was with Tavo's Full Throttle Promotions. I'm guessing what happened is when the METF money got delayed until November, putting him in default with his contract, Tavo approached Epstein about floating him the $25MM. Hindsight now, but i bet he thought, 'if I'm loaning this promoter guy money to pay his contract, why don't i get the contract with Bernie myself??'

I just don't see sanctioning fees as the main source of revenue here, rather tv rights and licensing. If that's true, then Bernie/FOG has A LOT more to gain from having a captive F1 audience in USA than COTA or any other race promoter will. To this end; two races are better than one (if NJ even materializes).

 

Bernie has SKY onboard for next year. Russia soon, South Africa brewing etc. No US races for how long and yet the sport keeps growing with Bernie laughing all the way to the bank whether COTA plants tomatoes, builds houses or actually has a race.

You are very very naive in thinking a US race is needed. Whitmarsh might think so but he is only stating the obvious as it is a large market that has NEVER supported F1 over the long term. Its been start and stop. The day NJ popped up on the radar COTA became and still is very very much expendable to FOM and Bernie. No loss if the race does not occurr. None at all.

 

Shouldn't COTA be calling a press conference to
set the record straight and get their arms around
all these rumors?

BHW

 

I posted the same a couple days ago. Long overdue. They have a race now. Some serious information should be forthcoming. Nothing yet. Im quite impressed the US will now have a purpose built facility. Not impressed with the management and COTA. I will wait a year or 2 before flying over for Austin. Im planning NY first if that comes through.

 

lets meet

 

Happy to!

 

Hard to tell who is right in this thread, most make valid points. Sure, would love to see November 2012 happen, but once again I have my doubts.

Is it possible? Sure.

Will they be working over the Christmas/New Year's holidays? Are the construction workers union?

June 1 will be the tell all.

 

That's actually what killed the F1 event in Phoenix, AZ.

The downtown businesses got ALL wound up over the lack of access and lost revenue.....it was all 'done" after two years, no matter what the Contract said.

Houston's event actually only made it for four of the five years, but more due to the economic upheaval of CART at the time. If you have a contract with a defunct business entity, it's not very 'enforcable.

Now to SRT MIke's points.....

 

Lets compare resumes:

SRT Mike has been involved in the design of "x" tracks......
BigTex has implimented power systems on "x" tracks.....

SRT MIke - 0
BigTex - 2

Next question..

Really Mike, I'm not sure WHAT you envison as an electrical load for this event.

I also installed the greyhound Dog Track in Lamarque, and even with the demands of night broadcasting the entire track with grandstands was a "small" project relative to my experience.

The Basketball arena/Football stadium complex I am citing as my other PERSONAL work experience is the Berry Center here in Houston.

You are full of it, man.

The substation was put in by THE POWER COMPANY to serve not only the Track demands but FUTURE CUSTOMERS in the area.

The ROAD IMPROVEMANTS were provided (at no cost to COTA) by TexDOT because THEY NEEDED to happen to serve FUTURE NEEDS in the area.

So all this "OMG that's a LOT of money!!" stuff that you cite, as financial burdens to the event and threats to COTAs finaincial viabilty is just NORMAL infrastructure expansion, in Texas.

 

???????

I build stuff all day long, that makes this project look like a facial blemish on the landscape..

Google up Project Delta in the Woodlands, Texas.

Maybe you have heard of them, they trade as "XOM"?????

 

I really hope that is THE LAST TIME you spout off on issues that you "really have no idea" what you are talking about.

Seriously, what I PERSONALLY "know" and "do not know"??????

You sound like an idiot when you make "all knowing" observations in that tone of post.
And I don't think you are an idiot, just that you write posts as if you are!!!

 

Big Tex, what percentage of seats at the Houston Grand Prix events were temporary?

 

..this should have been quoted in my post above....apologies.

 

ALL Of them!!




Stands A thru G, or even H.
Each held 600 -1200 seats, IIRC

Thanks for the opportunity, to respond to the spewing of SRT Mike's "knowledge"

 

The VIP grandstands, (in a City Park area) and the VIP Catering entertainment areas (tents) behind them were also temporary in nature.
I installed ONE Pad Mount Transformer to serve those loads, might have been $20K but probably not that much. It serves Discovery Green now, I am fairly certain.

I'm really sorry I have been thru about 12 computers since then or I would throw up for ya'll some of the AutoCAD files from the installation.

Then, you recall the final year the course ran out around the Astrodome and new Reliant Stadium, so they had to relocate all the equipment to that location.

The location of the Convention Center adjacent to the Start/Finish Line and pits DID give the event an opportunity to sell SuperViewing passes in those balconies (belonging to the City of Houston) and there were some glam parties located there...I tried to "pick up" Carolyn Farb!! LOL!

So the partnership with the City is CERTAINLY a HUGE part of the money that can be brought to bear on a project like this.
Once I had done the major part of the design/consulting AutoCAD work on that track, the City of Houston actually took over at some point with "free services" to the event for the exact same thing!

It was okay as I have to go check my tire pressues for the race, at that point.
Did I mention I started from the P1 pole, and won???

 

Every post you make here, should have the previous "In my opinion" attached to it.

You have taken my words "temporary grand stands" seating and perverted it to "truck based systems"?

 

Thanks, Dave.

Now, let me get back to bouncing nanoscale buckyballs, or docking the Carnival Magic....

*boat whistle blows*

You DO know there's a really nice 28 floor hotel breaking gound, in downtown Austin?
3rd and Congress, I think.....PRIME real estate.

I'm SURE it's totally unrelated, most likely some more of those "unfunded dreamers" that drop million dollar bundles of money behind them as they walk....

 

GREAT post, thanks...

Even a temporary street circuit is a TON of work, by a partnership of public/private entities...I was lighting my cigar the night before the 1998 Texaco race here, off the flare torch of the road crew doing final seal on the paving...

They were still welding down manhole covers too...

Rather a surreal scene, one of my favorite memories.

Well, that, and my date being SO excited making the news behind the Max Pais interview.
Man, that was a hot girl.....

 

$50M annually times 20 years is a LOT of electrical work, man.

See my comment above about the substation.

Much like the road expansion/paving, that was a decision OUTSIDE the scope of the COTA construction, and it was made by the Power Company based upon THEIR assesment of future customers in the region.

COTA did not pay for it, and it's really unusual for them to pay for the onsite transformers either..the utility prefers to own/operate those (unless it's a wierd size as they have to keep a redundant unit "spare")

So again, your continued comments that "you are right and I am making things up" is incorrect and unwarranted.

 

Ermm interesting this still rumbling on.

Is SRTMike getting a ear bashing for being right or.... wrong.

Or is it a simple crow eating exercise, and some are struggling eating the claws.

 

We will see next November who is right. If they do build it I will go in 2012. Then I will go to NJ in 2013 if it happens. I would bet the farm both these events will end up being 1 or 2 years tops and cause huge loses. This will be F1 GP number 11 for me if it happens.


Tom Tanner/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 2012