Hey, Edited from Autosport; The full story; http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96694 Dunno who else is this close to getting going....... Cheers, Ian
Not necessarily because I would try to be getting a jump start over the competition but then again who can honestly say other teams and their engine suppliers have NOT began testing?
I believe PURE may have dropped out when they changed from 4-bangers to the V6 (?) They always seemed a little "flakey" to me anyway - IIRC, Florian tracked their address to a hotel in Switzerland (?) I think Cosworth is also doing one BTW. Cheers, Ian
Maybe so, but they didn't finalize on V6 until around this summer iirc. Merc and Renault have lots of turbo experience. Wonder how Ferrari will get going on this, although maybe they've already been doing it for the road cars. Seemed pretty serious. Headed by ex-BAR principal who recruited the FIA engine head who saw everyone's preliminary designs before leaving (good enough look for LdM to be peeved about it) and was also the ex Ferrari engine head if I'm not mistaken.
You forgot too mention that Ferrari also have alot of V6 turbo experience but that is neither here nor there because I think we are on the same page. Even though I thought the teams could rely upon past knowledge I'm thinking that is not as easy as it sounds. I wish the new engine would be introduced sooner ie 2013 but I realize that would be rather presumptious.
I was talking about recent turbo experience. VGT is a whole different ball game as far as properly spec'ng everything optimally. I wish they stuck to 2013 too.
Ferrari are going to get on this by way of their turbo V6 Maserati platform engines. THAT's where Ferrari will get a lot of their engine data from. As for MB, they certainly are getting the ball rolling early on this. 6 pipes into one turbo! Wow these things will spool up quickly. Multi-stage turbo will make for big big power.
Flag -> BS -> thrown..... (IMNSHO ) Here's why; - The regs specify pretty much exactly what they can do. - *If* they regulate it via fuel flow there's only one "correct" solution - And it isn't coming from any Maserati platform.... +! "They" will however find a way to limit 'em to ~1KBHP as that's about what the safety gurus say is the limit. Cheers, Ian
Road car powerplants have little relevance to their race counterparts. An accurate enough estimation of the power can already be made using the calorific value of fuel, the fuel flow rate and by knowing the efficiency of a standard internal combustion engine, either thermals efficiency or BMEP. The engines will not be producing 1000 bhp as long as the fuel flow limit is 100kg/h. I'd be more interested to see what peak speed they run at. A pretty strong case can be made to avoid running to 15k RPM.
Duh!! I tried to make that reply as PC as possible lol. Once again 'Duh'! We all know this as they are hp limited.... Ummm duh... I think you missed something, no disrespect intended but you did circle the campfire abit..
I have been critical of MB on here ever since they joined F1. But I have to say kudos to them for getting the ball rolling this early. Having the right turbo in 2014 is going to be THE dominant factor in winning the championship. Anybody who gets their act together now, will have a head start. Saubere Sache!
+1 Another "+1". However, they stretched the "efficiency of a standard ICE" previously and I suspect they may be able to do it again..... This time round they're not allowed to run rocket fuel or even compound turbos, but they are pretty smart...... I admit my "~1KBHP" may be a little optimistic - particularly given the 7 (?) engines / season rule now, but I reckon they'll get pretty close. With pressurized induction? I know I'm an out of date old fart, but I always understood that more RPM = more power. [A simplification, but you get my point?] Cheers, Ian
They're obviously limited to 15K. There's a bunch more specs in the regs, but you get my point Cheers, Ian http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/$FILE/2014_F1_TECHNICAL_REGULATIONS_-_Published_on_20.07.pdf
Well then for whatever reason, Newey and Horner must be flat wrong regarding their comments a few months ago when they compared Red Bull's lack of engine R&D of the manufacturer teams who they stated have huge resources and knowledge. I agree it matters not a huge amount but their understanding of how to build and tune a good engine is pretty darn good
Ian, I meant even within the context of the 15k RPM limit there is some interesting incentive to avoid running up to peak speed. I'm a bit busy today and tomorrow, but I'll give a more detailed explanation into this.
Red bull's engine building resources are pretty much zero because they don't build any engines, they have them supplied by Renault so they pay Renault to worry about all the R&D required. The manufacturing teams make their own engines so their resources and knowledge of engine R&D is always going to be higher than Red Bulls. (That's not to say Red Bull have no knowledge but based on their racing set-up, they don't need the same level of in-depth knowledge that the manufacturing teams do, for Red Bull that would be a waste of resources). Look at it this way and the things that Newey and Horner have said are perfectly correct. Please don't fall for Red Bulls: "We're just a small team, like David, taking on the Goliath's of F1!" routine though, they spend as much on F1 as the likes of Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes to go racing.
Very true. However I do think the new engine formula is going to reset the current forces of F1. I wouldn't be surprised if Merc comes out of the gate with the best engine. They're known to build superb engines. And I wouldn't be surprised if the Renault and the Ferrari turbos will just blow themselves to pieces. Probably the winners in all this will be McLaren: If they stay with Merc, they'll get the best engine in the field (or at least one that doesn't self destruct) and they know already how to build a WDC winning car. 2014 could be another Hamilton title in the making.
Can't argue with any of that, although to be fair, Ferrari have come along way since the days of their regular mechanical malfunctions and engine blow ups. The thing I wonder about though is just how far ahead of the others is Mercedes really? It could easily be that the other engine manufacturers are in a similar stage of development but are keeping a bit more quiet about it.
MB's current engine probably isn't a massive amount better than anyone other than perhaps Cosworth. And by massive I mean maybe 20bhp. Once the head flow is right and cams are set properly every engine is goig to be very near one another in terms of bhp at 18k rpm. Although I do certainly believe ferrari and MB's oiling systems are the class of the field. And you can guarantee other companies have made goOd progress with their motors. Whether or not anyone has machined anything to the point that anything is being run has yet to be known, but MB and Ferrari are the best in the business when it comes to motor experimentation. Ferrari have made some wildly fantastic creations. However, I believe the acts of Mercedes with these engines are purely for Mercedes benefit. They are desigining an engine for their home team first and any prospective buyer second. I am sure MB are getting their engine running so they can determine the best mounting points to begin potential car floor designs. I also promise the only team who know anythig specific regarding the engine to date is the MB team. Mclaren will get the motor but they will have to make it work for their needs.
I've been saying for awhile now that if Mercedes is serious about winning titles they need to stop supplying McLaren.
I don't know what MB are paid by Mclaren or Fi for their engines, but you know it's not cheap. Supplying engines to the likes of another top team does nothing but good for the name which I believe is the name of the game in F1. Also, MB can hand pick the best engines of the lot for their own team although I thoroughly believe that there can't possibly be more than a 5bhp difference between all their engines anyway
Plus you double your test data (or triple by including Farce India), which is particularly important when you build a new one and have limited test data. That said, the MB situation is different from e.g. Ferrari as they are selling them to one of the two top teams. So instead of selling them to McLaren, they should sell them to Farce India and eg. Williams. Dont sell them to a team that's already better than you. Ferrari got that right.
