If they complete the track and there's a GP race, why would you wait a year or two to attend?? Granted we're still a year away and the track is not complete, but what's up with that attitude? Same here, and I plan to attend!
I'll eat crow no problemo, but for him to make PERSONAL comments of "(BigTex) has no idea the <MAGNATUDE> of a project like this" is just absurd on it's face, that's a personal attack, a voilation of TOU, and an idiotic statement, so I responded. How does HE know WHAT I KNOW, AND DON'T KNOW???? How dare he says such a thing, egotism gone mad? If a multi million dollar event "fails" here despite the best efforts of all involved, he can pound his chest 'till the cows come home. But his "all knowing statements on things" he has NO way to confirm is insulting. The electrical contract on the track was $17M from my information, again a "small to medium" sized project on my personal resume. Thank God maybe they held me back, from bidding it! LOL!
Just got my first Email on the event after signing up 8 months ago. Here is it: Is it really going to happen? Image Unavailable, Please Login
Perhaps they will start marketing a lot better now. Just think of the PR nightmare that would have happened, if they were already selling tickets without the race contract signed
No big conspiracy. The woman enjoys attending and has never seen NYC area. Its 1 flight direct for me from Europe. Ive planned 2012 for Europe and probably Japan/Singapore already. I am happy to see how it develops anyway. Not alot of hotels etc in Austin. No rush. F1 is truly worldwide.
Tex, I say you don't know what you are talking about because what you say and claim in comparison to what ends up being the actual situation are always very far apart. Case in point - the electrical infrastructure. You said (in response to me saying there would be significant electrical infrastructure required) "Tracks are not as heavy an electrical load as one might think... The street circutis come in and out wiring it up with temporary power units like a big Circus..." (http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=140348687&postcount=450) and " Running an overhead 15KV loop and a radial ring of Pad Mounted Tarnsformers would be "no big deal".......to my firm anyway. I'd recommend Walter A. Tew Electric......Union, but small and family operated....the best of both worlds. If they need a Joint Venture to get to the Bonding Capacity, let me know....we closed our Austin Branch not long after that Guest Quarters project......Austin 'cooled down' for a while there.." (http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=140348742&postcount=453) and when I suggested you weren't appreciating the magnitude of the electrical work required "Dude, I was INSIDE the design of the temporary circuits in Houston, and the only Pad Mounted Transformer added was for the "VIP Party Tent." Sure a clean sheet design won't be in the middle of the Downtown grid, but without track lighting you are basically building a giant concession stand. Really smalll loads, on a per sq. foot density." (http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=140349110&postcount=460) What was the truth? Were you right that tracks have small loads, and your local union-shop would be perfectly adequate to finish the job, and that temporary generators would be fine, etc, etc? Nope - totally wrong. It required a $3 MILLION substation http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/news/2011/01/31/formula-one-austin-receives-final.html Tex says "no big deal, the power company was gonna do it anyway"... except the track owners were slated to pay for $1.8 million of the tab. So that is a big deal. It's a HUGE project. A few high-kV lines and a couple generators? Not even close. So, that's why it's obvious to me that you really don't know what you are talking about. I said it nicely before when I said you don't have an appreciation for the scope of the project... and Dave was being kind when he suggested you were speaking in hyperbole when you obviously weren't. Then you came back guns blazing. So that's why I went back and put your comments out there so we can see what actually happened and what you claimed in relation to what the truth was.
And as for temporary grandstands, you were proven wrong on that because you spent months suggesting that construction of stands was not an issue, they could use temporary ones.... ...only to have the official project schedule come out and have construction of permanent grandstands be a stated part of the project. Another statement that ended up being way out of tune with the reality.
Sorry to shotgun-spam the thread, but on THIS... -you already are eating crow. Now you say $17MM is "not a big project" in your view? It sounds to me like you are redefining what is a big project to avoid that crow. You said you would have the Walter Tew company do the electrical at the Austin GP? http://www.manta.com/c/mmc3sjb/walter-a-tew-electric-inc Walter Tew - 10 employees, revenues of $1 million. For a $17 million electrical job? You massively underestimated the scope of the project. You worked on 2 racetracks.. that's great. I worked for the DoD for a while. You're an expert on racetracks like I am an expert on fighter jets.
To be fair to Big Tex, just because the official project schedule has construction of permanent grandstands stated as part of the project doesn't mean that they're not going to use temporary grandstands, it merely states that they're not planning on it. As the old saying goes: "The best laid plans of mice and men"
they have always planned on using temporary grandstands for areas. the main grandstand is a permanent structure
I don't disagree with you - however - the point is that Tex has been arguing that the hurdles that COTA needs to overcome are not that big a deal. Thinking a 10-man $1MM/yr electrical contractor is capable of handling the electrical job (which turned out to be a $17MM contract, requiring a new 30-megawatt substation that COTA footed the bill for half of), is a prime example of this. The grandstand "issue" is another. We've all seen the pictures of what COTA is building - thinking that they will just wheel in some temporary grandstands and that will suffice for a $400MM racetrack is just another example of the same lack of understanding of the scope of the project. Could it change? Possibly. I have no doubt that some things will be put off until later, or adjusted, or maybe even dropped from the final proposal. But when you see the artists renditions of the finished project, there ain't gonna be a line of temporary grandstands and some wheeled-in concession stands to service the inaugural $400MM Austin GP. This is a big, big project. I think you appreciate that. I don't think everyone does - including those who claim to have built racetracks and know exactly what they are talking about, even when they provably don't
I am excited for the world to get to see Austin Texas. Don't listen to the naysayers spreading podunk talk. It is a vibrant, pro-business, college town that just happens to be the State Capitol as well. It has great hilly tophgraphy, with lots of large trees, creeks and lakes, making it a great looking city. Downtown has had an influx of new buildings in the last 10 years, and has spawned a whole new restaurant and bar option south of the famous 6th Street area. Austin is equipped to handle crowds, as well as feed and entertain them. The UT football stadium holds over 100,000 now, and they regularly fill it. There are 2 huge festivals each year in town. SXSW is a film and music industy week long event that brings in 300,000, and Austin City Limits has 80,000 + each day at it's events. Plenty of Continental to Mexican to Barbecue to keep all palates happy. The amount of great, live music venues will blow you away, as well as the talent they bring in. Where you going to house them you say? Austin has 29, 378 rooms as of 8 months ago. San Antonio, which is within 60 miles of the track has 43,000 rooms available. And you have Dallas and Houston with a 3 hour drive. Who's going to buy the tickets in Texas. Metro area populations go like this: Austin 1,716,000, San Antonio 2,142,000, Houston 5,946,000, Dallas / Ft Worth 6,371,773. Those people are within 3 hours of Austin. We started with 220,000 at the early NASCAR races in Ft Worth, and still pull in 180,000-200,000 for 2 races a year. Even the Indycar Races there stared at 100,000 + and still pull in 80,000 with very little local promotion. I checked, and you can fly to both coasts, multiple cities and airports, direct from Austin. You can also use DFW and Houston for their hub capabilities to get to much of Europe direct. I just spent the last week in Hoboken meeting my new grandaughter. I drove through some of the NJ track area, and it gives a totally different kind of NE Industrial vibe, versus the feel you will get in Austin. Unless you have been there, I don't think you have a right make something out of the town and area it is not. Look forward to meeting a ton of F/chatters there.
Their biggest hurdle is the track itself. If I recall right, they're having to truck in different fill material instead of using what was already there (probably one of the cost overruns). Once that gets up, you just get the infrastructure in, and put up the buildings. Not easy, but not impossible. I'm going to assume that is way more than the demands for the track itself. Probably building a healthy amount for increased demand a few years down the road. Permanent concession and restroom facilities. I don't know if the temporary grandstands are by design, or a cost compromise. Keep in mind, for other events, if they get $$ going from the state METF/ETF investment funds, those could be applied to temporary site structures I think Tex's comments are more of a testament to the 'get 'er done' sentiments around here. No union cards, no green cards, just finish it
There were numerous posts in the early summer that if buildings weren't well underway in late june,... no I meant july,... no I meant summer,... they were in trouble. It's December,... they lost $25M or was it $29M in up front state money,... They never, not once, had enough manpower or equipment at the site to finish the project to F1 standards (see pics of the indian GP facility) on schedule. The usual 10-40 men (even Texans) we saw in the photos all summer long aren't going to get this done. Unfortunately,... This still has the smell of USF1 to me... Have massive quantities of building equip started arriving at the site?
Drove by the place wednesday around lunch time, and unless they moved some of the bigger equipment in overnight, i'm going to guess that some of the equipment never even left the site. They had 300 people before the contract negotiations happened. I'm guessing its never going to go down below that until next summer time. I find the photos you mention of India during construction rather reassuring actually. The ones from 13 months out, looked like they were reclaiming marsh land or something, and they made it. I just don't see how you can doubt the legitimacy of this project still. 100MM ++ spent on construction thus far. Bernie paid for at least a year.
Was that supposed to be serious or sarcastic? I can't tell because of the absurdity of the statement that the site will be ready by 2012.
I don't know what the specifics are on the big/small areas (in terms of time/money resources) for construction are, but, I did see AC's project plan, including the revised one, and they are way behind their schedule. I think saying "...you just get the infrastructure in, and put up the buildings" is a gross over-simplification, isn't it? Sort of like saying about business "developing the product is the hard part, once that's done you just make and sell them" But, I am sure you would agree that this is a big, big project. It's no dirt track and it's no local drag strip. It's a world class F1 facility. But if they are cutting costs to save money, why would they be spending a lot on electrical infrastructure for years down the road? And let's call a spade a spade... the suggestion that a 10-man electrical contracting shop would be capable of performing the electrical work required for a $300-400MM world class racing facility is something we can all agree is pretty far off the mark (to put it kindly), right? AFAIK there are also permanent grandstands in the AC project plan, are there not? I guess that's one word for it.
This is something I wrote elsewhere, but I knew was going to come up regarding Austin. This latest "scuffle" between Bernie and COTA was outside of and in addition to the prior concerns about the viability of this track for '12. Nobody was saying "I don't think they will be able to pay the race fee, they're done". The concerns were always over funding and time to be able to complete the track on schedule. This latest blow up hasn't made the situation better. Yet, the phrasing of the above suggests that the track being done for '12 is more certain than it was a month ago. I think it's the opposite. They lost, what, around a month of work time, and they have a $25MM (at least, maybe more) hole in the budget that did not exist before. Furthermore, some things came out during the scuffle - notably Sexton saying that moving the race to '13 would give them time to get the track ready, implying that may not be the case with a '12 date - and Tavo saying that the project was underfunded and missed key payments along the way. I am no psychologist, but I believe there is a condition whereby someone experiencing (and surviving) an unexpected hardship tends to be more optimistic about other hardships than is warranted. Like... you're facing armed robbery charges. While out on bail, you get pinched for murder... you beat rap, and then have a false sense of confidence about beating the armed robbery rap. I am not sure what the specific word is, but I'm sure you know what I mean. I can see some confidence resulting from COTA's ability to satisfy Bernie's payment demands, but as far as the schedule and how much time they have to build this thing... it's worse than it was before. They may even have to bring in a 10-man construction team to get the job done. I wonder who we can call?
It's way past time for COTA to trot out all of the players and hold a press conference to let the public know what is going on. Right now, this entire project resembles a rudderless ship. BHW
+1 This race was over when Bernie said so. He just keeps it on the calendar so he has something to throw out next year and can keep a clean vest towards the car manufacturers. Nobody believes this will still happen. Other than a few local faithfuls.
