328 fuel hose search--frustrated!! | FerrariChat
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328 fuel hose search--frustrated!!

Discussion in '308/328' started by greg328, Dec 19, 2011.

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  1. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

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    #1 greg328, Dec 19, 2011
    OK, I've been through lots of threads here, researching what I need to get to replace all the rubber fuel hose in my 87 328 GTB. Bought the car last month, parked it soon after because of the fuel odor in the garage. I had a 77 GTB previously and replaced all that hose, but the FI cars seem a bit more complicated.

    One thread here posted sizes and lengths needed to do the job, I'll paraphrase here:

    145" of 5/6"--ordered some on Ebay, FI-rated
    37" of 5/8" (CANNOT find this stuff!!)
    --I did buy some at a marine supply, rated B-ACOL USCG B2, SAE J1527--but I then read on here to NOT use this on a car!--it's to connect left tank to pump, so it's not under high pressure, right?
    29" of 1/4"--ordered some on Ebay, FI-rated
    8" of 1-3/8" (for the crossover tube--ALSO CANNOT find this stuff)
    4" of 2-1/4"--(for the filler nozzle-to-tank; found the NAPA 1055 no problem)

    Does this sound correct to the experts out there? I know Scuderia Rampante/Ricambi offers the partial kit, but jeez it's expensive, and it only covers 3 areas. Hoping to find alternatives..

    I'm considering returning the Ebay FI hose when it arrives, if it doesn't meet spec.

    After further research, in an effort to purchase hose that will be resistant to all the new methanol blends out there, I've found the SAE 30R9 standard. Goodyear has this product, check this link:

    http://www.goodyearep.com/ProductsDetail.aspx?id=5144

    However, I can't seem to locate a dealer that may carry this product. There is one guy in Houston I've spoken to, but he wants me to buy the whole 25' roll or nothing!

    I know Verell sells a kit to replace the small plastic CIS lines, haven't heard back from him, although mine look fine...

    Does anybody have any helpful info worth posting here, for myself and others?

    One more thing--for my previous car, 77 GTB, I bought the crossover pipe sections (1-3/8") from Superformance UK, but their website shows those bits only for the 308, not 328. Shouldn't they be identical?
     
  2. Constance

    Constance Karting

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    #2 Constance, Dec 19, 2011
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  3. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    #3 mwr4440, Dec 19, 2011
    And Greg when all the new stuff "goes Noodles" on you in a short period of time, then what are you gunna do?

    Your plastic lines ARE BAD. Period.






    You know who to contact.



    "Just Do It."










    Disclaimer: I have NO interest in the final outcome.
     
  4. texasmr2

    texasmr2 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #4 texasmr2, Dec 19, 2011
    Ah the joy of working on a mid-engine '2lb's of **** in a 1lb bag' fitment, I must have thrown $50 worth of tools into the bayou when I attempted that feat. Persistance and beer are you allies.
     
  5. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    #5 mwr4440, Dec 19, 2011
    You only drink WHEN working on a friend's car.


    You drink only AFTER working on your own.
     
  6. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran

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    #6 Crowndog, Dec 19, 2011
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  7. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

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    #7 greg328, Dec 19, 2011
    If you mean Verell, I have sent him an email regarding his CIS kit. I will indeed purchase that. The mystery I'm trying to solve is where to locate the stuff NOT in the SRI kit. As I understand it that kit does NOT contain all the hosing post fuel pump, is that correct?

    If I have to purchase the SRI kit, I will indeed do so, but before I drop $400 on 4 pieces of hose--and I do understand and respect Dave Helm's efforts to make that stuff, I'm going to explore alternatives, that meet the current standard.

    The stuff I need to locate quickly is--5/16" and 1/4", SAE 30R9 standard. I need to for sure replace the cloth-covered hose across the top of both tanks. There is for sure fuel odor and wetness on that one. Any links to a source? USA preferred...

    Greg
     
  8. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

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    #8 greg328, Dec 19, 2011
    This link is SUPER awesome, thanks. I've actually been to that site, but that hose is marine-grade. I always understood marine-grade has to be superior to automotive. Can the experts once and for all settle that question in my mind? Marine-grade J1527 is OK to use on my 328?

    Remember I do have a section of this J1527 stuff in 5/8" to connect tank to pump... OK to use in this manner?

    Greg
     
  9. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    #9 mwr4440, Dec 19, 2011

    Greg,

    Give DaveH a call.


    He'll help.
     
  10. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran

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    #10 Crowndog, Dec 19, 2011
    I am an amature internet researcher so please use due dillegence when using these refrences. I am not a fuel hose specialist. I am sure someone will chime in after checking out the sites.
     
  11. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

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    #11 greg328, Dec 19, 2011
    Crowndog,
    Are you able to confirm that the metric measurements 16mm and 35mm are indeed the correct sizes for this application? I'm going on a post by somebody else on here--no reason to assume he's wrong, but I'd hope to order and have on hand all the correct stuff to install the same day I tear the car down.

    16mm for tank-to-pump and a few other places

    35mm for the 2- 4" sections on the crossover pipe.

    The OE parts table doesn't seem to give hose sizes, just generic terms like "pipe" etc..

    The other persistent question--do these hoses, which aren't under high FI pressures, need to be FI pressure-rated?

    Greg

    PS--oops, just saw your last post, before I posted this. Can anybody else confirm?
     
  12. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran

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    #12 Crowndog, Dec 19, 2011
    All I did was use a conversion chart given by a hose manufacturer. I double checked with a conversion calculator and those figures are correct.

    The second link gives you a choice of braided, low pressure or silicone
    Cloth Covered email or call for quote/availability 918-760-0668 [email protected]

    This cloth covered hose is designed for high pressure transmission of oil, gas, air, water, coolants, etc. where operating pressures do not exceed 300 psi. Oil and mildew resistant textile black braid. Temperature range: -40°F to +250°F (-40°C to +121°C). Great to replace factory hoses that are cracking. Use in places you cannot use silicone.

    Type Part number Size ID (Inches) Size mm Minimum Price per foot
    Cloth Covered GA250 1/4 inch ID 6 mm 1 foot 3.92
    Cloth Covered GA357 3/8 inch ID 10 mm 1 foot 4.18
    Cloth Covered GA500 1/2 inch ID 12 mm 1 foot 4.80
    Cloth Covered GA625 5/8 inch ID 16 mm 1 foot 5.60
    Cloth Covered GA750 3/4 inch ID 19 mm 1 foot 7.38


    low pressure:
    Fuel Hose (low pressure) 35 psi to 50 psi email or call for quote/availability 918-760-0668 [email protected]

    Designed for use on all types of gasoline engines, except those with fuel injection...see fuel injection hose. Excellent resistance to oil, gasoline, greas, and weather. It is constructed with a neoprene cover and nitril tube for use with leaded and unleaded gasoline, gasohol, and diesel fuels, reinforced with a single ply of braided cored. Meet SAE requirements. Max working pressure 50 psi for ID sizes 1/4, 5/16, 3/8. Max working pressure 35 psi for 1/2", 5/8, and 3/4 inch h Not suitable for bio-diesel fuel.

    Type Part number Size ID (Inches) Size mm Minimum Max working pressure psi Price per foot
    Fuel Low Pressure FLP250 1/4 inch 6 mm 5 foot 50 psi 2.03
    Fuel Low Pressure FLP312 5/16 inch 8 mm 5 foot 50 psi 1.47
    Fuel Low Pressure FLP375 3/8 inch 10 mm 5 foot 50 psi 2.18
    Fuel Low Pressure FLP437 7/16 inch 11mm 5 foot 35 psi 1.53
    Fuel Low Pressure FLP500 1/2 inch 12 mm 5 foot 35 psi 1.47
    Fuel Low Pressure FLP625 5/8 inch 16mm 5 foot 35 psi 2.67
     
  13. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #13 BigTex, Dec 19, 2011
    The fuel pump pressure off the pump for carbs is 4 -6PSI, IIRC it's slightly higher for the injected pump but not above 10PSI.....7PSI maybe??

    The marine ratings are indeed for the use of alcohol fuel additives.

    That's where Dave started, IIRC before moving on to tougher stuff still yet.
    Cross it over to metric sizes and check the VW dealer over by the Mucky Duck.

    I want to come by and see it!
    Will call later.
     
  14. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

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    #14 greg328, Dec 19, 2011
    Crowndog, thanks again for your info, very helpful.

    I guess the question I'm hoping to get answered is, are the sizes mentioned, even converted to metric, in my first post indeed correct for the 328?
    And, is current-standard marine-grade stuff OK for auto use?

    Thanks BT, call me!
     
  15. John M

    John M Formula Junior

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    #15 John M, Dec 19, 2011
    Greg

    The hiperformance store is Greg Gordon from the Alfa side of the world. He has been selling hose for quite some time and is into turbo and supercharged apps of Alfas for many years. He is accessible via phone with questions. Great guy to do business with.

    Best Regards,
    John M.
     
  16. DWPC

    DWPC Formula Junior

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    #16 DWPC, Dec 19, 2011
    Am I missing something here? The regulated primary fuel pressure in my QV is about 75 psi (5+ Bar), so the fuel pump working pressure output must be something over that.
     
  17. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran

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    #17 Crowndog, Dec 19, 2011
  18. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #18 Steve Magnusson, Dec 19, 2011
    No, only the hoses downstream of the fuel pump need to be "FI pressure-rated" (but, IIRC, there are really no flexible "rubber" hoses used downstream of the fuel pump on a CIS system -- only the flexible hard plastic Cohline type). The hose from the tank to the fuel pump inlet does not; the hoses in the fuel evaporation system do not.
     
  19. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

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    #19 greg328, Dec 19, 2011
    Thanks Crowndog, I may have to spring for those... Is that price for 1 or 2? This stuff is EXPENSIVE! :)

    Greg
     
  20. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

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    #20 greg328, Dec 19, 2011

    A HA! Thanks Steve, I've not gotten under the car yet, so I was assuming it was similar to my old carb 308, in that the route from pump to the fuel system was rubber. Guess not.

    So, are these hard plastic lines susceptible to rot/and/or methanol damage? Are they part of Verell's kit? He hasn't gotten back to me yet, I'll call him tomorrow...

    I need to get the car in the air and really get to know what I'm dealing with... Just trying to order all that I need so it'll be on hand immediately..

    Greg
     
  21. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #21 Steve Magnusson, Dec 19, 2011
    The Cohline hoses are a solid polyamide material so I think that they are much more chemically-resistant than a flexible elastomer. The ones on my TR seem to be holding up well, but maybe on a 328 you might have some that are more exposed to the exhaust temps so might be a different situation. If you note any external cracking, I'd certainly replace them (and that is what Verell sells), but I don't think you need to worry much about the inside falling apart (like a multi-layer rubber hose).

    I know the SRI (Dave Helms at www.****************.com) fuel hose kit (for all the other low-pressure fuel hoses) seems a little expensive, but it's way, way less than the F price, and it truly is "better" (plus you'll burn some of your time doing the sourcing yourself ;)). Another clever product (IMO) he sells for your model is a support piece to prevent the hose from the tank outlet to the pump inlet from collapsing at the bends:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Of course, there might be another source for those too, but time is money ;)
     
  22. TacElf

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    #22 TacElf, Dec 19, 2011
    That really is the best fuel hose I've ever seen. Probably be good as new even even after I'm dust in the ground.
     
  23. Fave

    Fave F1 Rookie

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    #23 Fave, Dec 20, 2011
    That hose is $400 ???
     
  24. Robz328

    Robz328 F1 Veteran
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    #24 Robz328, Dec 20, 2011
    The hose is part of a kit for $350. Also included are the filler hose, the crossover hoses and clamps. It's expensive, but unless its SR09 or better, I wouldn't do it.

    Has someone priced with SR09 or SR10 hose with new clamps and coil reinforcements?

    It would be nice to see the price comparison.
     
  25. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

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    #25 greg328, Dec 20, 2011
    I know, it seems very expensive. If I have to I'll go that route, but I am shopping around.
     
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