Is there a quick & easy way to inspect the diff?

Hi Robert, can you share the details of the place in OZ (website maybe) or should one go through you to have one made up?

 

The supplier will only deal with automotive or engineering companies and has been happy to deal with me in the past if I run the product through one of my businesses. He will do me a minimum quantity of 6 on reasonable short notice.

If I get advance orders I can do another run anytime after the Christmas period.

Here's the link to the discussion on quill shafts.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=305799&highlight=testarossa+quill+shaft

 

6 ... whaauw, you are talking MONEY !!

Will not be easy to make a little profit this way ...

He is not willing to make them and keep them in stock ?

 

No Mel, he won't carry stock. Just fill the order.

His price is good and I don't mind offering the collection and postage service to the guys on here, but I can't hold them in my garage either.

Once a few more guys pull them out to inspect tem and find the nice shiny polished section they may like to replace them with a longer term and safer solution. If I can fill the order I'm more than happy to co-ordinate the manufacture and distribution of them. We are here to help each other out.

 

Correct; that's why I do the fully pictured repair posting: maybe readers can learn from these pics + comments .....

But F owners will not "just for the fun" take out their engine and gearbox to change crown-and-pinion + full diff exchange ...

Main reason is of course the money. Until it is obsolete ....one day ...

 

So a few months have gone by whilst I scour the World looking for the parts needed to fix my baby.

I've decided to have a go at all of the strip down myself, I simply can't afford to throw $40k at this repair, much of that being the labour component.

I moved a lot of things around in the garage and purchased / installed a 2 post lift. The Testarossa has been moved onto the new lift and I've made a start in the engine removal process.

The new hoist made it easy, but I was very methodical (read slow) and it still took me about 11 hours. I actually photographed and wrote down every step so this obviously added to the time frame.

So here'e the new cradle in position, then the car lowered down, and finally the engine and subframe clear of the car and pulled away into another area in the garage.
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Today I moved on to the next step. Remove the engine from the subframe.

This was a real nightmare as the driveline had siezed and I couldn't turn the half shafts or CV's. They are really long and stick out of the subframe and there simply isn't any way to lift the engine out of the subframe without unbolting the driveshafts.

Or is there>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Took me many hours to figure it out, but I started by removing the wheels, brake ducts and shockers. This then gave me some where for the driveshafts to go so that I could twinst the engine at an angle as I lifted it up and finally I managed to get one CV joint over the top rail. At that point it was simply a matter of moving the engine or sub frame and angling the drive shafts over the top of the sub frame. Then the engine lifted straight off.

I set the engine onto three car stands. Two at the rear and dropped the original engine mounts onto the car stands, and then one at the front centre onto a length or 4 x 4" oregon spread across the width of the gearbox.

Then I was able to remove all of the clutch assembly and the rear engine mounts, then remove the entire cover to be able to finally see into the diff space.

What I saw nearly made me cry...........................
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The weld had 100% let go and allowed the diff to move sideways into the bearing cage and shell.

This had spun and destroyed the bearing which in turn smashed the side support to pieces. The diff had jammed completely as large chunks of the side carrier were wedged around the crown wheel and pinion.
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The quill shaft looked fine, but was jammed in the box. Part of the side carrier had smashed and then been crushed around the end of the quill shaft so I couldn't pull it out.

Amazing amount of damage, and it went at 10 km/ph!!
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Holy SxxT ! ...

Did you take the gb off already; can you see if the pinion is safe .... or not ?

On these photo's, your crownwheel looks undamaged... not at all like mine ...
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The nest step was to get the driveshafts off and this was a challenge, but after some hours of work I was able to release the RHS carrier which wasn't damaged at all. This can be removed without taking the exhaust off.

Unfortunately the LHS carrier removal requires removal of the exhaust. If you haven't looked at your exhaust manifold bolts, then you may be in for a suprise.

Mine were so badly rusted that some did not even resemble nuts anymore, and were seriously difficult to remove.

Only one on the LHS gave me problems and using a cold chisel, I cut off the nut and the exhaust came away.

Not so good on the RHS. Your wheel throws a lot of water at the rear most exhaust and those bolts were terrible to get off. In the end, three studs sheered off, two had to be cut off with a cold chisel and the others came off okay. The ones that acually came off were towards the front of the car.

Once the exhaust was removed, the side carrier was removed and then the diff, or what used to be a diff, was extracted.
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So here is the diff. Completely fell apart and came out in many parts. Even the clutch packs and spiders came apart.

Totally rooted!!

Amazing. This has to be one of the worst implosions I've ever seen.

So at this stage all I'm concerned about is my crown wheel and pinion. I certainly didn't want to end up like Mel in Holland and have to scrounge the World for a crown wheel set.
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Here's some of the smashed parts.
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I think -seeing this all- that you still are VERY lucky; C&P look undamaged.

Not only saves you US$ 5000 but also 3 months of waiting time ....

I really am very happy for you ....
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And now after looking at all this misery, here some GREAT news!!!!!!!!!!!

Apart from some very minor scuffing where the crownwheel probably ate a bit of alloy, there is NO DAMAGE (YAHAHAHA) to the crown wheel and pinion.

I'll polish the tops with a bit of 1500 grit just to make sure, but at the moment I've looked very long and hard at them, and they seem to be intact.

That's a $5000 saving................................yeah baby!!

So I have a few challenges still to go. First will be to see if I can get the broken studs out of the heads and get a full set of new stainless studs and brass nuts.

Next is to detach the gearbox and start the cleaning process. A borescope up the oil gallery holes looks really good as though most of the material was contained to the diff compartment.

For those that haven't seen inside the casing with the diff removed, check the last couple of pictures.
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I know Mel, possibly the most damage ever inside a Testa gearbox, and no crown wheel set damage. Incredible.

I'm, going to buy a lotto ticket tomorrow, and will come for a beer with you if I win, my shout!

 

If you take the GB off, you may considder renewing all bearings.

At that stage, you may call your GB "complete refurbished" and the F factory wants a little US$ 30.000 for an exchange GB in that condition .... (amazing prices...) !

But you may also considder NOT to take the GB apart ...... can you refurbish all these bearings yourself and put it all back together again ?

Do you have the experience in doing this very precious work yourself ?

 

Well not actually Mel. This is my first engine out service, and certainly my first Ferrari diff strip.

But I'm not scared of it either. It's only nuts and bolts.

Just have to remember when you pull it apart, you gotta put it back together again. Can't be that hard!

>>>>>>>> Can it?

 

NOT really, I spoke with my German GB builder; it's not that simple.....

Do ask a gb builder locally first to assist you...

You know that if something goes NOT well you have to pay a lot .....

In my case, the C&P were damaged and were to be repalced. The pinion is a vital part of the gb ....

What's the mileage of your car ? If under 80.00 kms I definately would leave the gb closed ...
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Hello Robert; I've learned at a very young age...All nightmares Do NOT occur whilst one is sleeping....as far as removing the sheared bolts, sometimes the use of a right hand drill will remove the bolts, as the drills counter-rotating cutting will "sometimes" catch the bolt/stud & in the process..."unthread" the bolt/stud.....I APPLAUD your due-diligence Robert in this undertaking....have you tried looking at the US version of eBay for any of your parts?......Mark

 

Robert, you do need special tools for openeing the gb ...

And do you have the maintenace manual about the gb (see one of the drawings...) ?
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Hi Mark.

There are a couple of issues to face. Generally when changing out the diff you would measure your new diff and first test fit using your original shims. Then blue in your diff and check the feel and pattern. Based on these results you would get an indication of where to add or subtract shimming materials.

In my case, I have no original shimming materials from the LHS to place under my bearing, and in fact I have no bearing either.

So I need some info from you guys as to what size your standard LHS shim is so I have somewhere to start and also the numbers of the diff carrier bearings.

I'm going to now have to do a list of parts, including lots of small things like bearings, seals, O rings, exhaust manifold gaskets etc.

 

Mel, my car has done just under 40 000 kms. At this stage I'm going to remove the side inspection plate and have a look inside the gearbox section. The access is terrific here and I will be able to see really well if there are tiny bits of debris still clinging to the walls of the box on the oil residue. If it all looks good I'm going to set up a bath, tilt the engine forward and start flushing the gearbox from the front to back and let the cleaning fluid flow out the back. With the correct fluids and pressure and a lot of fluid I will get a very good idea of the state inside the gearbox.

If it looks like crap in there, then it has to come apart, but early indications with the digital borescope are that it looks really good.

 

Robert and Mel,

I feel for you both.



Ago

 

Hello Robert; I have a suggestion as to a "person" whom I believe can be a GREAT source of information for you in regards to some of your inquiries. His name is Tony, he is the owner of a VERY WELL respected Ferrari service shop in San Francisco. He is on F.C. & his username is TAFORZA I suggest sending him a PM......Mark