What would you do?

Simply put, the 16M is twice the money as a CS. If money isn't an object, I would go with the 16M. It's a rare car in its own right like the CS so both will hold their value better than a regular 430.

For me, I cannot justify that a 16M will cost me my 07 spider plus another 100K. I would buy a GT3 or GT2 with that extra cash and keep my 430. In other words, I wouldn't enjoy it 100K worth over my current ride.

 

Very well stated. Agree 100%.

 

go to any ferrari dealer and give them 230k inicial ,the rest in credit an buy a 458 spyder,and problem solve!!!!

 

If 16m's aren't moving then there is a number that will make one move. I'd do my research, make offers and see where I was ending up on the 16m and then decide.

 

joe,

here is what I would do if I were you.

get your dealers license!!! - you trade more cars than anyone I know - I'm jealous!!!

let me know what you end up with - the 16 M would be fun.

and if you want to buy a scud - lmk that too - I know of one you would like ;-)

 

16m's aren't moving at that price for a number of reasons.

A. The owners are asking too much and won't sell cheaper because they don't need to.
B. the market for 250k cars is not so good so you should see them sit for a year or so.
3. See #1

Don't waste your time or the sellers time with a 230k offer that's not worth the phone call. If you had 275k listing on a car will you take 10% to 15% off your asking?

The guys if they want to sell them will ask 250k and entertain close only.

My simple question is why sell

The 458 spider. Isn't a spider. It's a targa. The 16m is possibly the last hybrid soft top to ever leave Maranello. The 16m is stupid fast as you know and simply stated it will be very popular for many years because of its REAL soft top

They will depreciate like a CS. Just a 10% depreciation on a 250k car looks like more than a 140k car like the CS.

With 13 to 15 CS for sale right now you won't find the perfect car for less than 140 most likely closer to 145-150k

Is the 100k premium worth it? Depends on whether or not you want your hair blowing in the wind.

 

Hahaha
A.
B.
3. see 1.

Where is C? and Why is A number one? man... that made laugh. Good points though

 

All that sitting around on the lot, must not be good for the cars i would think?? (shrugs)

 

I'm of a different camp. I like to drive cars (opposed to collecting them) and my over riding factor is always "Which car do I like more?" After that comes affordability/depreciation/value, etc.. So since you have a 458, owned many FCars etc., it seems like it would be an easy decision-- hard top raw ride or soft top more refined ride? (I suspect you know the answer since you've had both types....then again there's nothing wrong with shooting the breeze about something you love with fellow enthusiasts either).

 

I feel the exact same way. I would also add a GT3 before laying out extra cash for what is essentially the same model, even though the characteristics are different.

I never understood the concept of the 16M. Its a stripped out race version thats a convertible. The Scud I understand completely. Track oriented lightweight version, makes sense. I know that the 16M is cool and "if" I was going to buy any crazy convertible that might be the one. But for the intended purpose I think that I would enjoy a 6 speed 430 spider much more. You can only go so fast on the street and having a convertible on a track isn't the best idea nor is it allowed at some places. Everyone has differing opinions on a car like this and for good reasons.

I like the 16M a lot, I just don't know where it fits in.

 

+1

I recently got my first drive in a 16M and its certainly a cool machine. I've driven Scud coupes a fair bit and own a CS. My thinking is that I always want a convertible in the garage (currently a Maser GS spider) and one weekend/track day car (currently the CS). I thought about the 16M as a replacement for both "roles" and decided I'd rather have a GT convertible (more civilized, less noise) and a coupe trackday car. So, if I want the performance of a Scud, I'm looking for a Scud coupe and keeping the Maser for top down duty.

The other issue I have with the 16M is "value" (as I define it for me only). At $250k it will take my Maser and CS and ~$90k on trade. For that $90k I could add a 575 to my garage or a slightly used Porsche Cayenne Turbo or new Cayenne S. The 16M is just too much $$.

The only role I could envision for it that might make sense for me is if I only had room for one exotic...in that case its likely the best all-in-one package out there (albeit at a steep price tag).

 

The part about adding a 575 or similarly priced car is also what gets me. To be able to have a CS/Scud and add a V12 to the stable for the same money makes my head spin. I had to downsize from 3 toys to 1 when I bought the Ferrari. I just didn't have the time for more than 1. That being said, I still don't have much time. So to spend ~250k+ on a car that wouldn't be driven much wouldn't suit me. Our climate also limits the usage of an open top car, unlike AZ. I think you should go for the Scud, keep the Maser GT, and enjoy. You'll still have your convertible fix and everything the 16M could offer you is in the Scud.

 

I've posted a lot about these dealers and I believe they will be the last to move on pricing.
I've posted the math a few times on why I think so but it comes down to return on dollar and the fact that they really don't need to move these cars fast.

16m for example. If they have it listed at 270k. Most likely they gave someone 230k trade in on whatever they purchased to date.

If so the dealer didn't spend 230k out of pocket. They "maybe" spent 23k 10% down and borrowed the rest of the coin. Lets make it easy and say they put 30k out of pocket and borrowed 200k

Money is cheap and most businesses know this if well established. They borrow 200k at 7% This 200k costs them a total of say $15k for loan fees etc for an ENTIRE YEAR. That's nothing.

So Mr Dealer has 30k out of the bank they sit an entire year and they now have spent 45k.

They sell the car for 265k. Pay back the 215k. Put the 30k back in their bank account and they've made $20k (pay the salesman 2k) so a total of $18k profit on one car using just $30k out of the bank for a year. 60% profit and they've sat an entire year on the car. Multiply this by 60 cars a year and they've profited a million.

I know quick math but it works if they sit on these cars. They don't car.

Plus a lot of these cars are consigned so they aren't sitting on the money or the car.

Private side is the place you may be able to talk someone down but you will have to talk a guy into a large loss if so.

Remember this is just the one side of the transaction. Whatever car the dealer sold to him while taking trade of said car they profited as well.

The profit also is 85% if they sell the car in 6 months vs the full year. Easy Squeezie

I'm just trying to see who is and who isn't paying attention

I've also said a lot I think that the 16m is the best car you can own if you only own 1 exotic. Top down and fast with the ability to have fun on the track as well. A lot of car for 250k Really look out there there isn't too much you can buy for 250k that competes.


I'd say good luck but I just don't see any of these cars getting stolen in the 230k range unless some guy is desperate to sell or going bankrupt and wants to try to dump some big car payment. Either way Good Luck

I'd still say 16m over the CS / 458 / 458 Spider etc but you've had tons of cars so it has to be the car that screams at you.

 

+1 I thought I was the only one who realizes the spider is dead. The 458 is a targa, albeit nicely executed, but it isn't a convertible, just doesn't look right unfortunately. Will I own one someday at the right price, sure. But the 16M is pretty special even more so now.

 

458 spider still looks more convertible than targa to me. I'd love for Ferrari to offer a real targa again like on the 355!

Personally I'd get a CS. The price increase for a 16m (no way are they worth 300k in this market but 250 for sure) just isn't worth it. CS probably will never depreciate below 100k.

 

I would take the 16M over the CS. Here are some hard numbers. My brother has a 16M with roughly 5K miles. He's thinking about trading it on an FF. Dealer offered him $255K. Dealer said resale on a 16M is in the mid $270K.

 

I'm always doing this car math too. If I could only have one vehicle, I'd have gotten a Scud. However, I have ability to park/drive 4-5 different cars and I really like getting used to one of them, then getting in the other for a drive. The differences between different makes/models are very fun, and it doesn't even have to be an exotic for this to be appreciated. After awhile in the 360 or 996tt, I still love getting in the G35 coupe b/c it's easier to climb in/out, has a full trunk and rear seats, a 10x better stereo, fantastic stock exhaust note, and a very torquey throttle response with no lag. Getting used to that again is fun, but then hopping back into the Ferrari is pure bliss, or the rocketship Porsche if I feel the need for G forces. I even enjoy driving fiance's Jeep Boat, I mean Liberty, on occasion b/c it's interesting to be high up for a change after getting used to sitting inches above the road's surface.

Anyway, I kinda view it as 360+996tt+G35+$60,000 ($ which may be substituted for an Aston V8 Vantage at some point) > Scud at $185k. Again, if I could only have one car, I'd get the Scud, but for now at least, I like switching between cars too much and can't comfortably afford to own more than one near $200k car at a time.

 

For me, it's all about having the top down on a nice ride. Therefore, I'd go 16m (will go at some point but for now the 430 spider is doing just fine!

 

I doubt they can get $270k range sale price for a 16M with 5k miles (See below for comps in the market)...that said, they can offer your brother that deaal because its a trade-in and they can take a bit of risk (meaning they don't need to make a ton on the 16M) since they are making many tens of thousands on the FF sale. (we see this often - but not always - with T/I value on new cars at sticker).

Some recent first hand examples

- I drove the perfect (resale red) 16M at Scottsdale Ferrari recently and they are asking $275k and I suspect would take anything over $250k. It is MINT and loaded and beautiful.

- I know of another recent sale below $250k (a fair bit below) on a car with an asking price of just over $250k. I can't say the specifics because I was asked not too.

- I also have seen the grey one in Scottsdale (was at the ferrari store, now at Chandler MBZ) with an asking price of $253k. What do you think this will sell for?

- And, the black one at Scottsdale ferrari with an asking price of $255k. Again, what do you think this will sell for?

Based on these examples and the fact that right now on cars.com there are 11 16M's with a range of asking prices from $253k to $299k with an average asking price of $277k tells me that retail is $277k ish, wholesale would be $235k ish (based on 15% mark-up) and expected sale price somewhere near $255k (based on 7% below retail)

I strongly doubt any 16M's will sell in the $270s in coming months...but they could sell closer to $250k. In the case of your brother's car, they will likely retail it at $270k range and hope to sell around $255k and make no money on it and still be happy (if they want to take some risk, they could retail it for $290k - way high for 5k miles fwiw - and hope to get more). Although, as with the three examples I pointed out, there are three competitive cars that have sold (1 of them) and 2 that are listed here in Scottdsale that only have asking prices of $250-255k. Thus they did/will sell for under $240k most likley...so there is some limited downside risk to the dealer on the trade, but I'm sure that is still okay with them on the sale of a $400k FF.

 

I agree with everything you said about my brother's 16M. I forgot to add some important information. The dealer wanted my brother to leave the 16M on their floor until his FF came in (many months later). Then they would give him the $255K in trade. So basically they had a free car sitting on their floor.

Edit: Is Jim Summers still the Service Manager and Gary still in sales at Scottsdale Ferrari?

 

16M is just one big smile. It is the only car I've driven that at any speed makes you feel special. It can be sophisticated, raw, loud, racer, convertible, smooth but it is always truly truly exciting. No matter what car you have, there is always a faster car, a better value car, but I doubt there are many that are more exciting at any price. For the thrills it gives, 16M represents great value. Yes I know I'm biased but they really are that good!
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Sorry, not sure about those guys. I work with Chris is sales and Russell in service.

I recently also asked about a T/I against a new cali (was thinking on trading the maser) and got the same story - give us the maser now and we credit you the $$ on your new car when it arrives. Must be SOP.