What plane should I buy? Recommendations?

Hi Guys,

I'm just getting started on my Sport Pilot's license. I am training in the Cessna 162 Skycatcher LSA with the full digital Garmin G300 avionics package. If all goes as planned, I should be able to get my Sport Pilot Certificate by summer and then continue towards a Private Pilot license.

My purpose for getting licensed is to start flying to work at least 1 day a week. My afternoon commute is a minimum of 2 hours in rush hour traffic, sometimes as long as 2.5 hours if the traffic pattern is messed up. Fortunately I have general aviation airports very close to both my home and office, so the air commuting is totally feasible. I've used a few of the aircraft affordability calculators that I found referenced in some other posts here, and I can comfortably shop in the $50K-$75K range, and stretch up to $100K. Newer + lower hours always preferred. Don't want to purchase a restoration project. No ultralights or experimental planes either.

The Cessna 162 Skycatcher LSA would actually be okay for the type of flying I have planned. I only need 2 seats, don't need a fast plane (the commute is 83 miles 1 way by car), but definitely want a workhorse with a proven engine and airframe. However, the Cessna is a little porky for an LSA. I have a soft spot for the Savage iCub (Piper Cub reproduction) but it will be some time before I'm ready to learn how to fly a taildragger.

Can you guys suggest some other single engine planes in my price range that I can start researching? And I won't be hurt if you say something like, "Don't buy an LSA. Get your private pilot's license and step right into a Cessna 172."

Thanks for the help!

 

Don't buy an LSA. Get your private and go straight to a C172. The C172 is easy to fly and is much more useful in terms of speed, range and load than most LSAs. Plus, you have the added bonus of an extremely well-established maintenance and support network from Cessna.

 

If you want to stick with an LSA, I'd get a CubCrafters Carbon Cub. If you're going to move up to a conventional aircraft, I was always a Piper man, myself.

 

If you have 75k to spend, I would get a 182 instead of a 172. No additional maintenance, easy to fly, extra 30 knots and a ton of useful load!

 

I would not buy a LSA. Before you get excited about a 182 check on insurance first, it has 230 HP, as a new private pilot your rates and ease of being insured skyrocket when you go over 200HP (high performance), or at least they did a few years ago.

 

Good point. I bought a new 182 with a G1000 panel in 2009 as a newly minted Private Pilot.
Insurance quote was $2500 with $350k of hull coverage.
I love my 182 but the insurance cost is going to stay relatively high until the plane depreciates some or I get my IFR endorsement.

If you've trained in a glass 162, you'll love owning a G1000 equipped 172 or 182.
.

 

That's very cool!!! Sounds like a fun commute.

What's the difference between a Sport Pilot's License and a Private Pilot License?

Jedi

 

Don't buy an LSA

 

The main difference is the operating restrictions. With the basic Sport Pilot's license you can only fly VFR during the daytime, you are limited to only operating Light Sport Aircraft (single engine, 2-seats max, piston engine/single prop, max operating speed of around 138 knots.) In addition, you cannot fly into B, C & D airspace until you have additional training.

In short, it is the learner's permit of the aircraft world. But it's a great way to get started and build solo flight hours, especially as a renter.

 

Guys, thanks for the advice you've provided so far. I'm really listening to the "don't buy an LSA" opinions because that's been floating around in the back of my head. A good new LSA costs more than the best used 172Q or earlier (pre-1996) so it's hard to make a business case for long-term LSA ownership. It's a lot like buying a 250cc dual sport motorcycle when you know you'll eventually need a 450 when you start riding in tougher terrain.

 

Thanks Greg!!

Jedi

 

What 2 airports will you fly into? Curious as I live in SoCal too. I don't fly light planes all that often anymore, so I don't know all the LSA rules. But based on what you're saying....daytime only, VFR only, 2 seats, NO class B,C,D airspace, why limit yourself? What if you work late and the sun goes down. Or we have the typical "June gloom"? Are you then stuck at work?

I'd check insurance rates as someone else posted. That may be a big factor.

You can get a full PP ASEL license in 40 hours. At least I think that's still the number. You could have it in a few months.

 

+1

+1

+1

 

Keep training til you at least have a PPL. Don't make any decisions before that. You don't know what you don't know.

You have a lot to learn. Keep going.

 

Hi Lou, I have CMA and SZP close to my house. CPM is my destination airport, 1 mile north of my office. SoCal guys can look at the map and see what a hellish commute this is every day. I leave the house at around 4:30am in the morning, and get back home around 6:30pm (or later at night.) As for the VFR limitations which would apply to both Sport Pilot and the initial PPL, I'm not worried about getting stranded at the office. We have a company car available and/or plenty of hotels nearby.

Insurance is not a problem. Already got a couple of quotes through AOPA and they are very reasonable because I'm relatively young (mid-40's), great health, and my interest is in slow, reliable planes with established reputations. I had them quote both a new Cessna 162 and a 1988 172 with about 1800 hrs TT. (Surprisingly the quotes were not much more than what it costs to insure my F355.) I saw a T hanger at CMA advertised for $315/month and CPM does not charge anything to tie down during the day, as long as I don't leave it parked overnight.

The Sport Pilot license for me is a stepping stone to the PPL. As I mentioned earlier, my goal is to get the Sport Pilot's license first because I can rent an LSA from my flight school for a very affordable hourly price, build stick time, and continue on towards the PPL. You actually can fly into B, C & D airspace with the Sport Pilot's license -- it just requires additional training and an extra sign-off from my CFI. If you've been up here in north Ventura County or flown over it, you know how beautiful the area is to fly in. We have friends who fly out of CMA or SZP, drop into SMX for lunch, SBP for an early dinner, then come back down the coast home. Air traffic is very light along the central coast.

Great advice from everyone on this thread so far, really appreciate it! I'm the kind of guy who plans all major purchases a year in advance, then pulls the trigger without hesitation when the time comes. That's why I'm starting the research now.

 

I got my ppl in 5 weeks. Stepping stones are not needed. Fly with your instructor til you can solo. That's where you build stick time.

An LSA is not high performance enough to build legit time. Sport license is a waste of time and money. Go get your ppl

 

Ahh, the old VFR corridor. Personally, I probably wouldn't use an LSA for that trip, although I have happy memories of flying through the corridor in a 152, which isn't much (any?) bigger than most LSAs.

I certainly wouldn't start flying that route until you've earned a private pilot's license! You'll want the extra training and experience. I think that's more important than whether you get an LSA or a more conventional aircraft.

 

Good advice. Yesterday I acted on the suggestions made here and picked up the Gleim PPL training kit that my school sells. Swapping to PPL instruction now, not much lost as I was only a couple of weeks into it and the ground school syllabus was the same to this point (Aerodynamics & Instruments/Engines/Systems.) Made my appointment next week to see an AME for my FAA medical examination/certificate too. LSA only required a valid driver's license with no med restrictions. Thanks guys!

 

Just curious, what does a LSA cost to rent per hour in So Cal? They must be really cheap?

 

Did your insurance Co. require a CFI to fly with you until you had 200 hours or more?

 

Cessna 152 is a nice little 2 seater that I would recommend. Costs around $25k and is much "sportier" to fly than a 172. Cut your teeth on that. Cheap to fly, half the cost of a 172 to maintain, and you won't lose any money when you sell it on.

I recommend you get a PPL as well. But don't count on doing it in 40 hours. Budget 50-60. That's what most people need if they are 40+. Pay attention to the weather and navigation sections of ground school. Don't let the radio bother you. It comes with time and practice. Start taking practice written tests right away--within a week or two you will feel a lot more confident about it. Best practice test site is here: mypilottests.com. Take enough so you consistently score in the mid- to high 80s. Then you know you will pass.

Also, when it comes time to select an examiner, don't be shy about letting one go for another. I had 2 give me crazy flight-planning assignments that required me to fly with less than full tanks to allow for the luggage and passenger weight, and then they created complex winds aloft and weather scenarios requiring climbs and descents for each leg. I simply told them I wasn't ready and then went with one who assigned me a straight-forward flight to an airport 60 miles away. Mind you, I made sure I could do the complex problems, but I didn't want these guys to nit-pick me to death during the oral parts or the check-ride. It's your money, it's your time, it's your licensing process, it's your confidence. Be competent, and don't let some power-tripping flight examiner rattle you.

Also, practice the maneuvers in the PTS till they are "easy"--understand how you have to compensate for wind when flying in a circle, square, doing figure 8s, etc., and do the go around, power off landings, and short field and soft field landings and takeoffs till they no longer challenge you. Practice flying these while sitting in a chair and talk yourself through each step till you have it down cold.

 

Cessna 162 Skycatcher LSA is $99/hr at Santa Paula.

The step up to a modern 172 is not much more. 2005 172SP NAVII is around $160/hr at Camarillo. Or a 2008 NAVIII with the glass cockpit at $170/hr.

 

If you end up buying, I would get a 4-seater. Having those extra seats may come in handy someday.

I see you may be selling your 355 wheels/tires. Too bad you don't live closer to me, I'd trade you for a bunch of duel time. I'm a CFI/MEI, although I would have to get them reinstated. What's the going rate for an instructor nowadays?

 

Hi Lou, $50/hour is the rate up here. Funny side story: I have 3 different sets of tires & wheels for the 355, pretty stupid since I can only drive on 1 set at a time. For what I spent on the other 2 sets, I probably could have pre-paid for my entire PPL training last year!

 

Buy a used 172 or Piper archer / cherokee 180 for $40-$50k and call it a day. Put it on lease back if you want while your at work for other students, you really can't go wrong with either for your first aircraft, a LSA is not what you want.

It's funny right now with the whole avionics suites, I know a lot of people who all they want to look at is an iPad. You'll be ok with older avionics, seems like we will be bringing them with us now.