The passion has changed

They all meld together?

Are you saying a Porsche GT2 RS can be thrown together with a Ferrari 458? Or a Mustang GT500 gets lumped together with a Nissan GT-R? These are four vastly different automobiles with vastly different driving and styling characteristics.

 

You managed to pick 4 cars that fit into 2 groups.

the gt2 and the mustang...rwd, manual transmissions, somewhat limited nannying.

458 and GTR...technological wizardry, no manual tranny offered, playstations on wheels.

The first group is getting hopelessly small.

The second group, which includes the veyron, macca, aventador and others is expanding rapidly.

I vastly prefer the first group. Between a m4-12c and a 458, i could toss a coin, they are as far as I care, variations on the same computer.

 

Another problem with the newest cars is the absolutely breathtaking depreciation - you have to be willing to spend $25-50K per year to have the latest and when I think about that it really seems stupid. (e.g. my buddy has a Scud that has probably lost about $75-100K in value since 2009 when he bought it new). And the increasing complexity and reduced ability of independents to service more modern cars makes keeping a modern car out of warranty daunting indeed, so you can get locked into ponying up a $100K delta every 3 years to step into the latest new Ferrari. That is starting to sound like real money. $3K a month can be used all kinds of ways.

My F40 is actually cheaper to own that a 458 in almost every way and I bet I get more than I paid for it back. Not usable as a daily driver, but if you use a 458 for THAT, then depreciation skyrockets even further.

And in 10 years I am going to go out on a limb and say the F40 will still be an icon, the 458, not so much . . . .

 

I think the styling (and even weight reduction) of some recent modern cars is a step in the right direction i.e. 458, 991, Boxster Spyder. The more digital driving feel and historical obsolescence of electronics are the key factors that are influencing the car passion/hobby.

 

The public road haven't changed in the last 50 years, but cars keep getting better. Modern cars have made driving on the public road so easy, that there's no challenge left in it.... fun fades when you can drive with two fingers and your foot barely on the gas pedal...instead of the 1970's cars when it took two fist and the pedal mashed to the floor to go 100mph.

I'd love to buy a 308 as I can't afford a Dino... but that's about it for Ferrari. Ferrari lost a lot of us when they had to choose between making a modern small light "Baby Dino" or the California.

I just bought a 2012 Cayman for a daily driver because the 2013 Cayman is going to be longer to satisfy CAFE standards (make wheel base longer to qualify for a new higher pollution category). They are also adding a Stop-Start that cuts the engine off every-time you stop at a light, taking away the old fashion handbrake and replacing it with an electric button, and adding electric steering to save gas. As bad as the last 10 years have been with increasing electronics... I don't see the "raw driving experience" getting any better as new European regulations come into play.
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I'd very much like to have another Enzo-era 12, but at around $100K plus acquisition costs for a Series I 330 comparable to my old one as the least expensive option, it's definitely out of the ballpark. Presently affordable older choices would be the 365 GT/4 2+2/400 series or a carbureted 308...wouldn't mind either.

Of the modern cars, the 550/575 series is about the only one that rings my bells, and a F1 trans would allow my wife, who can't drive a manual at all, to drive auto mode in a pinch. She also worries about me driving around in city traffic in a low-riding 2-seater without up to date safety features such as air bags, etc., and a 550 would satisfy her concerns. But there's also about a $60K gap between what I could get for my 308 and the purchase price and other acquisition costs for a good 550.

Options to make it happen would be to go back to work for a year, which I don't want to do until my book is marketable to literary agents and publishers, or score a big investment win. With our conservative, income-oriented portfolio, I'm not expecting this anytime soon.

However, where there's a will, there's a way.

 

Gawd....couldn't have been said any better my man. + 1MMMM

 

I definitely agree with your point about the Maserati SUV being cobbled together with a bin of parts. As a current Maserati owner and long-time enthusiast, I am sickened at the idea of a "Maserati" built in a Chrysler assembly plant on a Jeep chassis in Detroit. If that describes Fiat's direction for the "new Maserati", they can have them.

However, I cannot agree with your assertion that, because all the modern supercars do everything so well, that they all blend together. I'll paraphrase what I wrote in reply to another poster: A Porsche GT2 RS, Ferrari 458, Mustang GT500 and Nissan GT-R have virtually nothing in common with the other--except for the fact that each offers a STAGGERING level of performance. Most importantly, the driving experience of each is vastly different.

I think what you might be trying to express is that, with all of the options from which to chose, the exclusivity or uniqueness or exotic quality of owning a genuine supercar has been diminished. And I would agree. But, unlike you, I see this development as being very much for the better.

Competition brings out the very best in all things. Take the 458. It's considered by many as perhaps the best mid-engine genuine production car ever manufactured. Why is the 458 as good as it is? Because it had to be. The competition demanded it. The same can be said for all of today's supercars and at all price points. We have competition to thank for giving us a virtual smorgasbord of exquisite performance automobiles from which to chose.

 

Quad, you would be hard pressed to find a consensus that a Mustang and 911 belong in the same group. The two cars share only the most superficial qualities and are far more dissimilar than similar. If you've never driven a 911 at speed... having the engine located behind the rear axle adds something... special ;-)

As for the "nanny" gadgetry, you can always disable it and make the driving experience as raw and untamed as you want it to be. However, particularly in the case of the 911, the computer nanny exists for a reason.

 

This is EXACTLY why I own a 1982 911 SC coupe....well said Jon. If I didn't have to take my kids n their friends to soccer, etc., it would be my daily driver....I have a nice Alfa Milano i'm going to put some $$$ into this spring and use that as my DD....

 

Yeah, these new nanny-equipped supercars sure are so easy to drive, anybody can do it...
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Back to being serious...

Yes, of course modern cars are easier to drive. And that is a bad thing how or why...?

 

Yes, it changed into this

Just bought myself a BDay present

Buy American is my new motto
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well done hubbster!!!!!!

 

Speaking for myself, I think it's not so much the car itself but the time at which you started the passion for automobiles. For most of us it would be in our teen years in high school or even earlier. The first Ferrari I dreamed about owning is the 328 and that car has stayed special with me for sentimental reasons. The very first cars you've dreamed about owning are the ones that remain special to you for the rest of your life. Just as the 458 will be a dream car for someone who is in high school now and who may buy one when they're an adult for again sentimental reasons. I occasionally look at AutoTrader for 328s for sale but my 430 keeps me more than happy for now, as it has a 6-speed manual, but perhaps in the future.......

 

Hey William, gorgeous colour scheme on that GT. As a side note, I use your household electrical Hubbell products!

 

Thanks

 

Nice! Congratulations

 

Two most recently selling for $450k and $515k making them $250k plus more which sadly has put them into crazy money now. But WOW are they special.


This thread makes me realize why my most desired 250Lusso has crept up $100k this past year. All you guys want the old stuff now


Two years ago I went the same way in my mind. While I love my newer stuff I spent our last driving season driving my 356, 69' Austin mini and a newly added 65' 21 Window Bus. Combined not 200hp and I was never happier.

I hope I am able sooner than later to grab myself a nice piece of 60's Ferrari. I know for sure it will never be 458 or newer.


Great post Bullfighter.

 

Computer-designed, wind-tunnel anal-ness over aesthetic considerations, ABS, power steering, anti-lock brakes, rev limiters, blah-blah-blah. These are the trappings of the modern sportscar, including Ferraris. No question that today's cars are technically better, but that says nothing about driving enjoyment and passion. There is a FAR more humanistic element to the older Ferraris; they feel and drive as though they were put together by human hands...and emotion, and, as such, they contain the spirit, as well as the foibles of having been created as such. The new cars simply lacking in that emotive, human element; machines and computers have all but sanitized this away.
If I had 150K to spend on a F-car, I wouldn't even consider a newer car (well...perhaps a Challenge Stradale :-o ). Rather, I would just keep going backwards, most likley to the 365BB or 512BB.

 

Very interesting thread.

On the one hand, every car in my current stable is a destination, a car that was a dream car for me before I got it. From that perspective, I no longer have this ache inside me that craves another car, something I don't have, that I desperately want, lust for. And I have always had that ache, having owned close to 40 cars in my adult life . . . but not anymore, apparently.

On the other hand, out of all the cars in my stable, the one brand that has always been my true dream car since childhood, my Ferrari, is the one I am attached to the least, that I would part with first. That is not to say I would not miss it, or that I do not love it, I do, but it falls in line behind 4 others I want to keep more, would miss more.

Yet, when I drive my Ferrari, I still feel a thirll and special. But that is now personal, and only personal. Ferrari's are not the rarest cars around these parts. They are, in fact, pretty common. In terms of my stable, far more rare to spy around here is my R8 or V8 Vantage. My Bentley is more common than Ferrari's. But it is not as common as Porsche 911's, which are as common around here as a Prius in San Francisco.

People react strongest to my R8, then the Vantage, then the Ferrari and "car guys" react strongest to my S54 M Roadster, a car so rare, only 1,500 were ever made, only 200 in my color . . and my favorite car, the only car in my stable I will never part with.

I do "want" other cars, but wanting and lusting are different emotions and I miss the lusting part. Lusting makes me want it now, right now. Wanting makes me patient. What we want, we don't need and what we lust for we can't live without.

I have always thought "lust" as an emotion, gets a bad rap. What other emotion makes you feel so alive? What other emotion yields passion, the offspring of lust that keep you alive and makes you hear your own heartbeat?