MCLAREN WAITING LIST

Glad you're happy!

No question that when it's fully sorted, which it will be and made a bit priettier, which it also will be, it will be serious competition for Ferrari. The GT3 version already looks great.

 

Well, opinions are rampant on these 2 cars, but few have actually experienced both on this site. It is nice to read a unique take on the Macca as I am interested in getting more info the MP4-12C. Hoping to get behind the wheel of one in the next few weeks to have a hands on experience to share. The current consensus is that the 458 trumps the MP4-12C, it will be interesting to see if there is a different opinion in 2-3 years.

 

Agreed. On my bucket list is to drive back to back the 458, 12 C and aventador at exotics racing to experience it myself. In 3 years, we'll all be looking at the 458 replacement most likely which will be faster and who knows what else.

 

have read a couple of comments from owners who own both 458 and McLaren and so far all of them have been positive. There is an unbiased write up in *********.com from an owner of both cars. Notice most negative comments come from those who have not driven a McLaren.

 

I have to say cka you are correct,so far every one who has both prefers the Mac,at the lastest tally i make it around a dozen. i will be interested when someone swaps back which will happen im sure.

Before anyone gets on their high horse, most of these customers have no great passion for either brand and are judging them on a like for like basis,something that was going to happen eventually , and those of us that do have a passion are going to be bias anyway.so no need for anyone to get protective of either car,its your choice!!
Ps, Bob if you jump on a plane you can have a ride anytime

 

Thanks Andy! I just may take you up on that someday! Very kind of you.

 

That sounds awesome! But there are cars with similar power to weight ratios and they get boring after a while (GT2 RS, modded lambos and corvettes). What makes the 12c so thrilling?

Sounds like the 458 is just too heavy. Easy to fix but we'll be paying out the nose for each pound lost.

 

FWIW a company having the McLaren available for rent isn't too much news. GDC has had a 458 available for rent for a while now

 

I will add my dissenting opinion. Per my comparison after a test drive in this post

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=141023772&postcount=32

I felt the 12C just did not convey the same sense of urgency and drama as the 458. This is largely due to the engine and its turbocharged nature I think.

 

You bet,and ive never been to Vegas!

 

Love the car,really liked the handling and acceleration blew me away.
Car is as comfy as an E-Class on any road.
I hate the doors,the way they work,the position when they are up.
I feel and look like an idiot getting in and out of that thing,otherwise the car is perfect.

 

Not dissenting at all!,i found your review honest and factual and alot more people would be worried if they had pulled off a N/A engine.,I would say the passion in a ferrari is the engine and the passion in a Mclaren is the ethos,but that just my opinion

 

As I said earlier, when the next scud comes out I will buy it. I LOVE Ferrari, I just feel they are missing a little in the excitement factor with the 458. I do have the upgraded exhaust on the MC which may add to the excitement. I am not trying to hurt anyone's feelings here, it just is what it is. The MC feels smaller, drives with more precision, and is just flat out stupid fast. Maybe the "pundits" on top gear know something I don't, but how many of us can drive the car the way they do on a closed track all day long? However, for tooling around LA and bursting through the canyons, the MC is just flat out awesome. If i would not have liked the MC so much I would have bought another Scud to fill the void until the new generation comes. Take my opinion fwiw, if you think Ferrari is the best ever based off of a car and driver article and a show, then more power to ya. However, if you want the opinion of someone who has driven all 3 cars for extended periods, it is what it is. Love the 458 it is just too soft of a car. If you haven't noticed lately most of Ferrari's cars are going more mainstream daily driver then hardcore adrenaline pumping cars. Case in point FF, Cali, and the 458 to some extent. In LA there are more women rolling 458's then I ever saw driving 430's.

 

You had a lot of credibility in your post -- until this last statement. With all due respect, I think maybe you have some issues.

I don't judge a car by what sex a person likes it. This is not 1954.

Lastly there is no reason to insinuate that owners here are some kind of wimps if they like the 458 because woman drive them too.

Tell us your experience of the 12C and we will gladly listen -- but please keep your prejudices to yourself.

 

Any single ones? Preferably mid-20s.

 

Below is a posting on another forum: a owner's perspective of a McLaren


http://www.*********.com/forums/mclaren/68699-mclaren-mp4-12c-owners-perspective-*********-com-exclusive.html

 

Looks like it got censored.

 

An unbiased and interesting read.

McLaren MP4-12C: An Owner's Perspective
A *********.com Member Exclusive
Words & Photos by John Lafleur

There are many entertaining ways to ring in the new year in southern California, but when I received the call informing me that my new McLaren MP4-12C would be ready for delivery on the 31st I could think of nothing sweeter - it would be a great beginning to 2012.

Since then it has been difficult to put the keys down, particularly with the end of the 650 mile break-in taunting me from the horizon. Two weeks and 800 miles later, I still find things missing in my refrigerator that require a trip to the store – on the other side of town. Launch control gets you there faster, but I digress….

I was asked to write a piece describing why I chose a McLaren and what my ownership experience is like, so I will reluctantly park the car long enough to jot some things down.

First off, let me throw out the caveat that I have not owned a long string of super-cars. I have always been a sports car nut and historically have decided to spend more of my income on my cars than my financial advisor would like. Since my high school days, a little over two decades ago, each of the many cars I have owned has been a two-seater sports car, well, except for a truck I owned for six months while in school. But, redeemingly, it was still a two-seater. Today the 2012 MP4-12C parks next to my 2007 Porsche Boxster and a 2006 Ferrari F430.



So why McLaren? As a Formula One fan, I have an appreciation for and admiration of McLaren's racing pedigree. Along with an unequaled success rate, they have a great depth of technological experience and highly skilled personnel to leverage in the development of their road cars. Certainly this was evident in the McLaren F1, a car many have argued was the greatest road car of the 20th century. In the early 90's I drooled over specs, reviews and photos of the F1. The jump in technology and performance the F1 represented was quite impressive, with the car serving as the reference super-car for at least the next decade. In so many ways McLaren did not appear to be interested in building a car that took a safe route and had a McLaren badge slapped on it. But, alas, I lacked the financial wear-with-all to put one in my garage.

On the surface, the F1 appeared to be more of a whim than a business plan for McLaren. But when it was announced that it would be entering the super-car market as a fully-fledged manufacturer, my ears perked up. Ron Dennis enumerated the company’s goals at the launch of McLaren Automotive: to set new standards for quality, performance, efficiency and the ownership experience. I knew McLaren had the capability and backing to accomplish these goals. When I saw the car for the first time and heard the specs, I was impressed by it all. And being a part of the McLaren mystique and the launch of this "new," cutting edge super car maker was an enticing opportunity. So I put my name on the list the moment the dealers were announced. My order was finally placed in June of last year, built in October and delivered just in time for the champagne and fireworks.

So does the new McLaren deliver on the promises for the car and the experience? I certainly think so. An appreciation for the design of a specific car is a rather subjective point, so any individual's opinion is as valid as the next. I personally believe that all super cars have a presence and personality; some very different than others. For me the MP4-12C fits really well.



I prefer an elegantly designed car over a flamboyant look, which is perhaps why the Gallardo was the first Lamborghini since the Miura that I would consider owning. I can appreciate the capabilities, styling and "volume" of the more flamboyant cars as well, but I cannot see myself owning them. On the other hand, the McLaren and most Ferraris fit more comfortably with my personality. Comparing the design of the 12C to my F430 or the Italia, I find all three of them beautiful, but each has its small flaws in my eyes. What I like most about the McLaren is that it is a bit more elegant and compact shape, the surfaces flowing more fluidly across the car with less sudden breaks or distractions. To my eye none of the individual design elements look disjoint or tacked on, which I find in a couple of places on the two Ferraris.

The build quality of the McLaren is outstanding. The interior materials are top quality and the gaps, fit and finish across the vehicle are obviously held to a stringent standard. The instruments and controls in the center panel are quite attractive; their integrated look, perfect positioning and ease of use belie their bespoke nature. One tiny complaint I have, however, is that the instrument binnacle is aimed just a touch low. In my preferred seating position the turn signals at the very top of the instrument display are halfway cut off by the top of the binnacle. And as has been widely reported, due to difficulties with the provider of the media system, that system is currently unfinished with software/firmware updates planned for the next couple of months to finish it off. With so many features missing from the system at the moment it is difficult to judge whether or not it will meet capabilities McLaren set for it. In its current form, it has a very effective interface with an iPod, but the radio reception is poor enough to make it nearly useless, a problem that McLaren says should be addressed by an update within a few weeks.

The 12C is easily the most comfortable super car I have sat in, an opinion that is heavily influenced by my 6 foot 3 inch frame. I spent four hours in the car the day I picked it up and my body was none the worse for wear. The 360 and F430 were the first Ferraris I could fit in without my head wedged into the roof. The fit is still tight and the common Daytona seats are not too comfortable around the shoulders, as if they were designed without regard for drivers over 5'10". By contrast, the MP4-12C is incredibly comfortable to sit in and has plenty of leg and head room, enough even for a helmet, which I hope becomes a priority someday soon. The seats also hug the driver a bit better on the sides than does the F430. However, the high outer beams of the carbon fiber tub and low seating position conspire to make the car slightly more difficult to get in and out of than some others, though nowhere near the difficulty of the Elise. Visibility through the front is extremely good, particularly with the very low front cowl. Also important for us tall folks, the visors are tucked into the ceiling, not hanging down in front of the windshield, a problem which has prompted me to remove the driver's visor in a few of my cars, including the F430. The car has good visibility out the rear and sides as well.



On the performance side, as has been reported elsewhere, the 12C is blazingly fast and out performs everything in its class and almost everything in the next class as well. From a non-launch control standing start, the acceleration feels similar to the F430 for perhaps a half second until the twin turbos respond at about 3 or 4 thousand revs. This might also be a result of traction control, however. The turbos respond very quickly when in motion at reasonable RPMs. And when they kick in, the McLaren really throws you back into your seat and puts a smile on your face, the tires greeting you with a few chirps if their temperatures are down (tire pressure and temperature gauges can be brought to the instrument panel, incidentally). I think the violence of the acceleration has scared more than a couple of my passengers. Luckily the brakes feel very strong, though I am still learning to feel the bite point. I chose the steel brakes after McLaren commented that the carbon ceramics were only recommended for heavy track use and the steel brakes came in at the same weight (due to their reduced size, in comparison). I am quite happy with their performance though – they have been tested for extended stints.

The MP4-12C sounds quite impressive getting to speed, too. Ferrari's normally aspirated V8s and V12s have a wonderful sound that I have always enjoyed. The McLaren has a different sound, but I enjoy it just as much. For my car I chose the sports exhaust for the lighter weight and more prominent voice. In the production car, the weight savings ended up not being as significant as was originally thought. But it does sound slightly louder and different than the normal exhaust when I listen to them side-by-side. The turbos give the exhaust a more guttural sound under acceleration, but also add a bit to the presence as they spool up behind you. They are not as prominent as some other cars, but windows up or down you can pick the sound out and it adds a nice touch to the car's unique voice. As the RPM's wind down, the exhaust also has a very satisfying burble.



The dual-clutch transmission is a thing of beauty. Gear shifts are lightning fast and I rarely ever surprise the box with a change in direction (I am also slowly learning to give the box a hint with pre-cog). The paddles feel comfortable in their position and the resistance and click add a little more certainty to the switches. One of the prototypes I drove had stiffer paddles with a more prominent click. They feel just about right, now, although it still requires some effort to take advantage of the rocker nature (pushing the left paddle to up shift rather than pulling the right, for instance). Also, I find that I do prefer the paddles rotating with the wheel, particularly since I don't have to move my hand to shift while coming out of a turn. This was particularly noticeable in the Ferrari when accelerating through expanding radius curves.

The feel of the car on the road is nothing short of incredible. The steering communicates the road surface rather well (prominent bumps are also greeted with a uniquely hollow thump that reminds you that you are sitting on top of a carbon fiber tub). The rack is weighty enough that it does not feel overly sensitive despite how fast it is, which helps to keep your hands on the wheel at the paddle locations in most situations. The wheel itself is a little small for my hands, perhaps because it was allegedly modeled to fit Hamilton's paws. While that sounds cool, he is a small guy. The size does not seem significantly smaller than the Porsche sports steering wheel, but with my hands at the paddle points of 3 and 9, I find my fingers curled up behind the spokes of the wheel. Since the paddles are relatively small (compared to the Ferrari paddles), it is difficult to trigger them from 10 and 2 or slightly below. This just takes a little getting used to.

The hydraulic suspension keeps the car flatter than any car I have been in, whether under braking, acceleration or in a turn. The suspension and the control given to the driver to alter it, along with the power train, is probably the most amazing and innovative aspect of the car. The "handling" and "power train" knobs change the character of the car pretty extensively. Other super cars have these controls, but I have never experienced any car that even approaches the flexibility of driver experience that the MP4-12C has. To me this is what makes the new McLaren a revolutionary car. Sure, it is crazy-fast and handles amazingly well but I have yet to unsettle it and have not provoked understeer in areas where I commonly experience it in the Ferrari and Porsche - thank you brake steer! If I'm traveling on a particularly poor piece of road, I can dial the handling to "Normal" and dynamically change the ride quality to that of a comfortable sedan. As an example, the 5 freeway near my home is in bad shape. In some lanes my Ferrari feels like it is going to bounce off the road, the Porsche is punished as well. But the McLaren takes it in stride in "Normal," smooth as a luxury sedan. And even in "Track" it handles really well, though it porpoises a little bit on extremely wavy roads. So I tend to stay in "Sport" more often in those cases. But even in "Track" I still feel much more confident in it than I do in either of my other cars. And for me confidence-inspiring handling has always been one of the most important aspects of any sports car, which is why I generally prefer the handling of a Ferrari over a Lamborghini... and now McLaren over them both.



But the widely adjustable suspension is not the only metamorphosis built into the McLaren. On longer trips, the beauty of the Ferrari V8 can fade a little as the engine note is always rather prominent. In the McLaren I thoroughly enjoy the sound of the engine from inside the cabin when the power train is set to "Track." But when I'm cruising on the freeway for long distances, I can turn the power train to "Normal" which routes less of the engine sound behind the cabin and results in an environment in which you can easily hold a conversation. It is not luxury sedan quiet, but a bit easier on the ears for a long, relaxing drive. Except for those long hauls, though, I keep it in "Track" to bring on the noise!

As for the promise of efficiency, well that is not really much of a concern when I purchase a super-car. What it does show, however, is the commitment of McLaren to pushing technology forward on many fronts. That is something I do appreciate: if there is an improvement to be made, McLaren endeavors to accomplish it, no matter how insignificant it may seem. My MPG (U.S.) in the McLaren (about 15 on average) is a good bit better than my F430 (about 11 on average). In that respect it is actually closer to my Boxster than my Ferrari in the city. Perhaps it is unfair to compare the 12C to the F430 given the years since its release, but avoiding the gas guzzler tax is certainly a big feat for a super car.

The most easily obtainable goal McLaren Automotive set for themselves was to establish a new standard in "ownership experience." I have always been a fan of Lotus and Ferrari cars. Both companies produce great cars and are often at the cutting edge of technology. As an owner I have experience with both Lotus and a Ferrari. I also have a little experience with Lamborghini dealers (while I was deciding between a Gallardo and the F430). My Lotus and Lamborghini experiences were fairly enjoyable. But by far my worst experience with a car dealer has been with Ferrari, both before and after my F430 purchase. I have had a number of opportunities to contact them, but whether it was purchasing my F430, requesting info on the 458, or inquiring about Ferrari Driving School, factory tour and Formula One paddock passes, I received little to no assistance and usually a healthy dose of arrogance.



Unfortunately, I hear similar stories from those of us that are owners and huge Ferrari fans but are not the super wealthy. In the end I decided that while I love the cars, I would not buy a Ferrari from a dealer in the future.

In contrast, McLaren Newport Beach has been a great group to work with. The General Manager, Pietro Frigerio, kept me up to date with the development of the MP4-12C throughout the last year. On the few occasions that we saw each other at Cars and Coffee or the dealership I always had interesting conversations about various cars as well as the McLaren team, as he is also a Formula One fan. After my order was submitted I was kept up to date with feedback regarding my anticipated delivery date and any delays. Eventually Nick Jones joined the team as Sales Manager and my dealings with him have been equally enjoyable. He helped keep me updated with my car's progress and shared his impressions from his time on the track with the 12C prototypes (I was very jealous). They were always honest and never over promised. Over the course of the year I was given the unsolicited opportunity to purchase McLaren paddock passes for the Canadian GP (an amazing race to have attended), have dinner with McLaren Managing Director Antony Sheriff and North American Regional Director Tony Joseph, and test drive and give feedback on the prototypes.

A couple of days after the delivery of my car, I unfortunately had to bring it back to the service department to have clear bra applied and to check a slow leak in one of my tires. Grant Johnson, the Service Manager at McLaren Newport Beach, oversaw the install of the clear bra and took the time to make sure it was done right. He found that the leak was due to a thin 2" rod that became lodged in my tire, which could have happened before or after delivery, but replaced the tire at no charge. He also followed up with McLaren with all of my questions and comments and got back to me quickly with their responses.



Everyone at McLaren Newport Beach has been a joy to deal with, great car guys and knowledgeable racing fans. And though I am probably not their wealthiest owner, I am still treated well. Ironically, the owner of my local McLaren dealership also owns the local Ferrari dealership, which goes to show that McLaren's long-term success in the ownership experience sits largely in the laps of the General Managers and sales personnel that the dealers employ. That will be challenging for McLaren to monitor, but certainly keeping the number of dealers as low as they have will help. Time will tell how that pans out over the years, but I am certainly happy with the ownership experience that the staff at McLaren Newport Beach are working to establish; thus far unparalleled in my experience.

A final word or two...

There are many fans of Formula One, the McLaren F1 and automotive technology that will have a great appreciation for the McLaren MP4-12C as much as any Ferrari, Lamborghini or Porsche... all wonderful cars in their own right. But as with any new technology or company at the cutting edge, there are always the skeptical that will sit by the side, wary of change or something different. I certainly would place myself in the category of "early adopter" in that I am not afraid to commit to a leap of faith with an open mind when it comes to the promise of something new. Sometimes that mentality has burned me, but in this case I hardly considered it a risk given the pedigree, capability and focus on perfection that McLaren brings to the table. And after a couple of weeks in my new McLaren MP4-12C I can say unequivocally that I am incredibly happy that I took the leap! The more time I spend in it, the greater my appreciation for its capabilities. If you have not yet taken the opportunity to drive the McLaren MP4-12C, I strongly recommend it, if for no other reason than to marvel at the technology within.

 

My bad on the women comment if you took it the wrong way. All I am saying is the new Ferrari's are very driveable on a daily basis. Not like a CGT or even a Scud due to lack of creature comforts. I have zero issues with women driving these cars just an observation. Most people I know can't contain a CGT, I would be one of them. The car is just too much and way too uncomfortable to drive. Once again, another car I have actually driven extensively. However, the facts are what they are and I don't believe the Ferrari target market is thirty something year old women. If they wanna drive em, more power to em, but they are the minority that I feel is growing with the comfort level of the new cars. This is not an issue i have, just the truth......WIMPS? I never said or implied that, \ you may have the issue here..... Relax....

 

No problem. Sorry but it sounded like a slam. We've heard a lot of this kind of thing in the California section and it gets really old.

Anyway, I'm very happy you enjoy the 12C. Competition is good for every business and I'm sure Ferrari is working on making even better products now because of what McLaren has created. The Aventador is also a terrific machine. The competition in this category is an all out fist fight.

I don't know if you've seen the pic's of AndyC's 12C but it's McLaren Orange. It's really a beautiful car.

 

I would never slam a Ferrari or one of their drivers, that's why they make different models and lots of options for each. I love the cars and I know the cali has taken some heat. Unfortunately it is by people who haven't driven them and or don't understand their placement in the Ferrari grand scheme. The Cali is an unbelievable car for both speed and comfort. The transmission, like the 458, is awesome. Funny part about Fchat and boards in general are people posting strong opinions and talking crap with little or no experience actually with any of the cars. Like you, it seems, I have driven all of these cars and only express my views on what i see, feel, and experience firsthand.

 

The problem is that a lot of Mac supporters come on this forum and try to stir up things. If you try to even question the Mac at a Mac sight, you get perma banned.

I have no idea why Mac people like to do this on Fchat. Most of us like the 12C. We chose to buy a 458 but there's nothing wrong in liking both cars. We like many cars -- Porsche, Ford GT's, Lambo's, etc.

A lot of us would like to drive a 12C. I would for example. Would I buy one? Probably not. But that doesn't mean I can't respect it and appreciate it.

My message is to Mac people who post here: 1) remember your audience and 2) Can't we all get a long?

 

seconded

 

Amen. I come here to share experiences and information about Ferrari's, specifically the 458 which I am lucky enough to own. I don't mind, in fact enjoy discussing Lambos and Mac but don't want to feel like opinions are being pushed down my throat.

 

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