Converting an 328 to run R134 ????????

Can someone give me a quick rundown on what is required to convert the aircon to run on R134

How much $$$ approximately

The old R12 is banned in Victoria ( Maybe all of Australia for that matter )

Thanks

 

David,are you planning on doing the work yourself?
There are some other gasses that can be used as well as direct replacements.
First step is to see if there is any R-12 left in the system.If there is then it needs to be decanted...if there isn't then the system needs to be leak tested and any leaks repaired before you proceed.
Once you have established that there are no leaks in the system, you need to replace the filter drier.Depending on what replacement gas you use,you may need to flush out the old oil in the compressor and replace with a compatible oil for the new refrigerant.

Once this has been completed then its time to dehydrate the system usually to -30 microns.
If the vacuum holds for more that an hour you can go ahead and charge the system with the new gas..note if you do go with R-134a it will take less than the R-12 took.
Second note,which l'm sure you may be aware of,R-134a will probably be approx 30% less efficient than the original R-12
Im not sure what a shop would charge as there are a few variables,mainly being if you have leaks in your existing system.The leak/leaks could be easy fixes such as tightening hoses or various flare connections to faulty compressor seals,perforated hoses,leaking evaporator or condenser coils...they are more costly to fix..
A generic filter drier should be around $40,as you wont find the OEM one..
Up to a kilo of R-134a(it will probably only take about 700-800 grams) depending on what a shop charges is around wholesale $30 odd/kilo...retail probably $50
Labour again is hard to workout given the variables l mentioned.
Let me know if you have any other questions

 

Maurice

You've been a great help - Didnt know other gases were available that comply with law

Is it a labour intensive job as I wont be doing any of the work

Best Rgds

David

 

Maurice

Do you have any recommendations re the gas type

Cheers

 

Sorry David there are a couple of other things l left out that should be done as well..
If converting to R134a then the serice valves need to be replaced,there are adapters availabe also..
There are o rings that should be replaced,8 from memory,but they are relatively cheap..
The hoses are debatable,,,some people say they need to be replaced,some say they dont..replacing the hoses on a 328 is a major pain in the rear..

Now for alternative refrigerants...SP34E is a direct drop in for R-12..nothing needs to be changed except its always a good idea to replace the drier..the its compatible with mineral as well as PAG or PAE oils..lm not 100% sure that its still available in Australia as l havent bought any for a few years..
The other alternative is another controversial topic..
Alot of people have used with great success although you may not find as many shops that use it..it called HR12 and its a Propane/Isobutane blend..before you get shocked into its a good idea to read up on it..
Here is a link on it..
http://www.airchill.net.au/auto-motive-air-conditioning-gases.html
And another...
http://www.hychill.com.au/pdf/hcm_e.pdf
Hope it helps..

 

I just completed the conversion. I replaced the compressor also with a rotary Sanden, it draws less hp from the engine. Also, changed out the expansion valve and switch, drier and it is recomended a new condenser. They are cheap and brings the efficiency back up. Highly recommended.

 

Can you advise what parts you used? I thought the issue with this was also the evaporators (and capacity thereof) which is in the pod under the dash - and so much more difficult to change.

 

You will be in heaven if you check out RetroAir they make a conversion kit for 308s. The kit that they show is also sold in a less envolved version which I purchased which is just the adapters, compressor and mounting plate. But, he has everything you will need:

http://www.retroair.com/ferrariairconditioning.html

 

I clicked the link and the page shows what looks to be a complete kit for $1475 or so, is that the complete kit, or are you talking about a cheaper less complete kit? I'd spring for the $1475 if that included everything? Thanks, Dino

 

Both actually. It depends on what you are trying to accomplish. On the left side was a tab for Ferrari kits and that has what I used (compressor,adapters,etc). Rick is very helpful at Retroair and will provide any help you need. My system blows COLD for the very first time.

 

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=344660

 

That thread was my inspiration.

 

I don't see it mentioned yet, but the main thing to know is the lubricants are not compatible betwen the two gases.

It's critical to flush all the old oil out before reloading the new refrigerant and oil charge.
The Sanden conversion is a great modification if you have the North American style York compressor (which I buy on the used market! )
Sean. F's great project thread probably covers that somewhere.. I was just tossing it out there.

 

Got one left over if you want to make an offer big guy?

 

Name it.....I'm easy!

They are rebuildable, (reed valves and seal) sadly, I sent mine in, and they threw it away!

That guy owes me he'll flip when I put another one in his hands!

$50?

Was it working when you removed it??

 

No idea as it was not charged when I got the car. I have no clue what these are worth as used items, not much I gather. Let me ruminate and I will get back to you. Thanks for the offer. I imagine it will cost a bit to ship as it is very heavy.

 

Thanks to all contributors

I was wanting to keep everything standard and try to get the AC working with what Ive got albeit with new gas R134 or similar

Thanks again

 

David,

I do not claim to be an expert- as I have not done auto ac for at least 10,000 hours, but I have learned a few things having done ac on 4 cars of mine, and having studied auto ac for a few yrs. Just my advice- do not waste your time/$$ converting to r134a.

You are so lucky down there in Aus- you have available HC propane/isobutane blend! So many advantages to it over R134a it isnt funny. Thats what I use. Dang- you will NOT need to:
1) replace condenser to accomodate the lower efficiency R134a
2) purge out all the mineral oil from the R12 as HC is totally compatable
3) replace any hoses unless a leak is detected
4) replace your TXV valve (if you are sure it was cooling with the R12)
5) replace the dryer (slight moisture with NOT harm system with HC)
6) evacuate the system (a pain, and needing equipment) to infinity vacuum (30 mm Hg).

Reason you need to evacuate to 29.9+ " Hg is water vapor combined with R134a will destroy the compressor within a few years. With HC, no problem.

HC costs way less than r134a- produced by Dupont in a monopoly industrial market. Much hysteria on HC's regarding so called flammability. Dont succumb to it. SP34E mentioned above by fellow member is 96% R134a! (No magic here) the balance is propane and some alcohol- you see how propane is the key player here? But ,5% will not do it.

PM me if you need to talk more, or hey, post right here!!
Good luck.

 

Also posted above by a fellow member , that SP34E is a direct drop in replacement for r12 is, I believe, not correct. The EPA, to my knowledge, has not recommended any gas as a direct drop in replacement- ever- for r12. If it has, please correct me. I have been on their site and have, over the years, never found them to do so.

Now, our EPA has nothing to do with Australia, but still- there is no way you can make a mostly R134a gas compatable with R12 system. The lubricants and gasses are NOT compatable.

 

SP34E is a direct drop in for R-12.It is fully compatible with mineral oil found in R-12 systems.
A few years back I charged two identical refrigeration systems that were originally designed for R-12...One was converted to R134a and the other to SP34E..The system running on SP34E out performed the R134a system,but it wasnt as efficient as the R-12
Here is an excerpt from Solpower..

"Solpower Corporation has the exclusive North American*(US, Canada and Mexico) right to manufacture, distribute, market and sell SP34E. Its applications include automotive, domestic, commercial, transport refrigeration and air-conditioning as a direct drop-in alternative to R12 and other fluorinated refrigerants. SP34E has improved operating characteristics over other refrigerant replacement gases and does not require the costly replacement of mechanical components or removal of mineral and synthetic oils that are found in older systems. It has a lower discharge pressure and a much shorter atmospheric life span. The product was developed in Japan and is currently being sold in Japan, Australia and New Zealand. Solpower Australia Pty Ltd., our Australian affiliate, have captured approximately 15% of the Australian refrigerant gas market share in less than one year since their introduction of SP34E," says James H. Hirst, President and CEO*of Solpower Corporation.

 

David,try find someone that has SP34E..I checked and its still available in Australia.

 

This is fantastic - Exactly the information I need

My A/C on the 328 is next to useless

Will do a leak down test and then explore the SP34e

Thanks Pippo and Maurice ( and all who contributed )

 

I've had my system out of gas since I did my belts 6 months ago..being a GTS I just dont see the purpose for it...I've gone through this whole summer(not that we've had much of a summer) with out A/C...I've never had the roof on and needed the A/C..I always had the A/C on when l had the GT4..even upgraded it cause it was next to hopeless stock..
I will regass it one of these days

 

That's why you should move to Melbourne - Hotter and less rain

Haha - Thx again

 

Maurice,

where does this come from? not the epa. here is what they say, even though, we know he EPA is not always unbiased:
How does EPA define the drop-in, retrofit, and new use categories?

Although EPA does not recognize any refrigerants as being "drop-in" substitutes, in general usage of the term means that the refrigerant provides exactly the same cooling, efficiency, durability, and other performance factors as the original refrigerant, with no changes to existing equipment. For purposes of SNAP determinations, EPA does not distinguish between drop-in and retrofit substitutes. The retrofit designation identifies substitutes that may be used in systems retaining at least some of the original equipment. Retrofits will generally be less expensive than new systems, meaning total replacements. Many substitutes will be acceptable in both categories. Alternative technologies will usually be deemed acceptable only in new equipment, since they cannot utilize parts of existing systems.

Read the 1st line where they mention "drop in". "DOES NOT RECOGNIZE". This is off the actual EPA site.
Again, and I dont know if you read my post, SP34E IS over 95% R134a. That IS the chemistry. No ac tech I ever spoke with will never drop in r134a into r12 system. That concept is as taboo as one can get.