Maserati Khamsin

Can anyone confirm the use of Toyota Suspension Fluid as an equivalent for LHM?

 

If you post a product number perhaps someone see what the technical specs are.

Are you stuck with no LHM equivqlents?

 

Jack:

In haste as I am just back from Retromobile: ABSOLUTELY DO NOT PUT THAT TOYOTA (!) FLUID ANYWHERE NEAR YOUR CAR LET ALONE IN THE LHM SYSTEM.

Too many people have in the past ruined their systems by putting brake fluid (huh it was green too...) or other incorrect fluids.

If you can't find LHM in South Africa I just spoke for you to Frederic Daunat a specialist who supervises 300 Citroën SM's -which by the way I feel do very much belong in this section- and he can ship some to you: it is very inexpensive. But first try your local Rolls Royce dealer, they stock it because Rolls Royce asked to use the hydraulic system in the sixties and did it until the 1990's.

When I had my K I went to get LHM at the Fort Lauderdale Rolls Royce dealership.

best regards,

Marc

PS: AM120018 sold by Artcurial for 43000€ it needs quite a bit of cosmetic work, will post photos later. You could see the orange from the original paintjob under the navy blue in the cracks.
There were lots of Masers at Retro, wonderful to see!

MS

 

I did a few searches and I can't find any specifications as yet for the stuff so unless it's specified by the manufacturer as a valid replacement for LHM then I agree with Narc. Not worth the risk. There are others that do just that.

 

Thanks guys: I'll try to get a part-number for the stuff, but it is hydraulic fluid and has nothing to do with brake fluid.

Marc, no, there's no problem getting LHM, thank you for taking the time and trouble! I'm getting in a tight spot timewise, the logistics all fit, but it's touch and go. It's going to be an exciting week!

Another question: The car has been running on 10W40 for years; this seems a little thin to me at temp, but there are no apparant problems.

Not to start a discussion on engine oils, but what are you guys running?

 

Hi,

I think what is important is that the lubricant you are planing to use is mineral and not synthetic base. Furthermore, from the viscosity point of view in warmer regions it is recommended to use 20W50.

Regards,

armaz

 

HI Armaz,

Thanks, that's a good point.

I wonder, however, if this holds true for late cars as well. Almost without exception, synthetics were used in the high-end Italian cars. I don't have the instruction manual at hand yet (it's in the car) so am curious if Maserati modified seals etc in the V-8 to withstand synths, and if so, when?

 

Most Italian cars of that era recommended Agip Sint 2000, which is a synthetic blend. The oil of choice for most people is Castrol 20w50.

 

I concur with Armaz... I have always used 20W50 in all my Maserati's... Never
had an issue....

Mike

 

Hi,

According to the the manual the recommended lubricant is Agip Sint 2000 with 10W50. I understood that this is a synthetic oil, so at first I tried 10W40 of Valvoline Durablend synthetic lubricant. The problem I faced was the lack of oil pressure. As you can see from the manual the recommended pressure is between 3-5 Kg/cmq in low to high RPMs. My gauge was showing 1-3 Kg/cmq and I believe that even with better folwability of synthetic oils we still need the pressure in order to be able to penetrate in different areas. As a result I changed to Elf Mineral oil 20W50 and the pressure reading is now 3-5 Kg/cmq.

Regards,

Armaz
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Hi

LHM = MIL Spec 5606 of Shell 4. ( red mineral aircraft hydraulic fluid. Used in a range of light aircraft and B747 Landing gear Oleo's)

I also know of peole sucuessfully using Auto Transimition fluid but I wont recomend the idea.

Surprisingly I managed to get some LHM Plus via Ebay. Howeve this was locally in Australia

Regards
Graeme

 

Thanks for the info again.

I, too, have my doubts about 10W40, think it is too thin at high temps for the engine, it was not built with the narrow tolerances of modern engines.

I can still get the Agip 10W50 synth here at the Ferrari/Maserati dealer.

In my 308 however, I used to run Castrol Edge 10W60, which performed really well. Ambient temps can go quite high here in summer, but my oil-temp was always OK even driven hard. I quite liked that oil, but I also don't want to put any undue strain on the pumps and relevant drives, or run an oil that's too thick to reach places where it's needed.

Maybe I'm worrying over nothing, we'll see how she behaves with what's in it on the trip.

 

Hi Graeme,

Red soup instead of green soup, I think the ATF idea may hold some promise, although it has a lot of detergents in it, something I have no idea of in LHM.
If ATF were a viable option, it would also take away a lot of the hesitance people generally have about buying a car with these systems, they are used to using ATF and think nothing of it.
Did they use it to top up or filled the system completely with ATF?

Thanks,

Jack.

 

Hello all:

Was reading this recent exchange on replacing LHM with other fluids when I received this email. It is by an anonymous Khamsin owner who does not "do" forums however his thoughs are exactly in line with mine so I will just quote him verbatim. He will stay anonymous but I do know he drives his Khamsin across Europe often.

hi marc,
sounds like retro was worth the while ,as usual. i just read on the blog about LHM again.
as you know i don't like mixing in this. but this unqualified speculation about lhm vs atm is really quite risky and "unqualified"
as you mentioned you got yours at Rolls dealerships. absolutely correct. my bentleys (as any RR) have a special holder within the compartment for the tools which houses a bottle of castrol LHM.
there is a HUGE warning in the manuals about using anything other than approved LHM types.IT RUINS THE SYSTEMS.
Now, bentley and RR are not know for exaggeration so they have their reason which is that the seals and washers will be ruined by the non LHM oils. which would lead to absolutely and very costly repairs of the hydraulic levelling systems in these cars.
too many wannabes and know it alls, who think they know better than the people who built the damned things.
maybe you want to issue a warning.
best

End of quote.

Please heed the warning.

LHM is plentiful, is cheap and the supply is not about to run out so why would you use anything else?
Again let me confirm that many Khamsins hydraulic systems were ruined in the past by people using the wrong fluids.

Hope this helps.

If you have trouble getting LHM let me know and I will find you a supplier.

best regards,

Marc

 

No, not the spec for LHM, the spec for the Toyota Suspension Fluid to see if it's specified as a substitue for LHM. I expect it's not but might work in a pinch, I dunno.

Personally, I'd stick with one of the many LHM type fluids on the market. Petrosin makes one and I've used their stuff for years. Castrol used to have one as well which is what I used to get from the Rolls dealer in SF Bay Area,.

But ... if you're in a pinch yes I've heard that the ATF fluid will work too. Never tried it though. But then I think you should flush it out again when you get a chance. The really ruinous things happen when idiots put brake fluid in the system.

This was all covered either earlier in this thread or in another one. Ivan made reference to it once again a few months ago?

There's nothing about this system that should terrorize people. Bascially it's a mineral oil based hydraulic system.

I haven't tried the Shell product either.

 

Hi Graeme,

Here in Norway it was a aircraft mechanic that used a red hydraulic oil used on big aircrafts on his Citroën CX as a replacement for LHM. He said the hydraulic system was behaving better with this oil, specially during winter as the oil had more stable viscosity during temperature changes.

Still I wouldn't have used anything else than LHM in my cars. It's easy to find, not very expensive, and doesn't need to be changed often. Besides it's green, witch is very cool.

Ciao
Marius

 

Now that's very hard to argue with ...
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http://www.candokaraoke.com/tony.html

There is something about fluids, at end of page is listing where is compared them...

But still, why not use LHM if it can easily find? Couple of days ago worked perfect in -27°C with only 627***km driven Xm...

 

Part number for the Toyota Suspension Fluid: 08886-01805 (2.5 ltrs)

 

These guys claim the specs for it aren't publish and ... that it is verboten to use any substitutes for Lexus/Toyota. LOL

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/lx470-and-lx450/147280-where-to-find-the-ahc-suspension-fluid.html

It all sounds so familiar eh?

If you've got the time just use one of the approved LHM products.

You'll catch a lot less sh*t from folks on here ...

 

Bob, you like living dangerously, don't you?

In any case, I'm going to flush the system as soon as the car is here and put the proper stuff in, right now I just need some fluid to take with me to remedy problems on the way back. For instance, the seat-height hasn't been adjusted in 7 years, a small leak can happen quickly.

Maybe I'm just being too careful.

 

Me dangerous?

Having a big leak on the ancillary system sounds like a potential big mess. LHM is a real b###h to get out of carpets. Does the Khamsin have a master cut off valve for the ancillary circuit like the Bora does?

Hey I've had a few adventures with this system. One due do an error on my part, I didn't get the main O-ring seated properly for the main accumulator. Boy that was a mess. The other happened in the middle of the a long trip out west in the deserts of Arizona & Nevada. A brand new main accumulator failed by having that plastic disc at the top crack and pierce the bladder with a pin hole leak. Talk about spongy brakes! The reservoir looked like a creme de menthe milkshake.

Good luck with your green adventures ...

 

Just received a disconcerting phonecall: the compressor we received back from the re-builder is the wrong unit, and so is the pulley. Of course, the drive-cable for the waterpump is also gone.

They are taking their responsibility, but where am I going to find a correct complete compressor and a drive-cable?

Thanks for any and all input!

Jack.

 

Hi Jack,

Cable is available from both MIE and McGraths as I changed mine during the recent engine rebuild.

I'm sure it's been mentioned here before that the compressor is a York unit and may still be available. Not so sure about the pulley though, may have to try someone like Maseratisource, or even McGraths who broke up a Khamsin some years back.

Best of luck

Bal

 

The McGrath website indicates having found a cache of original York compressors, see link here: http://classicmaseratis.co.uk/index.php?s=khamsin

Pascal