Personal liability

I think you're looking for a different insurance product altogether.

 

I have made an inquiry. I would think an umbrella policy would cover this, but let's see what an agent says.

 

My umbrella policies have excluded track liability fwiw (Allstate and ACE).

Fwiw, its the only important insurance to have when on the track for me anyways...yes, having damage insurance on my car would be nice, but liability protection is a MUST. Many event organizerrs have insurance in place for participants. You should start with the club or whatever organization you are tracking with. Most tracks require the renting organization to purchase liability insurance as part of renting the track (through a third party insurance company). Call your club/organization and call the tracks where you intend to drive and they can educate you on their requirements and policies and they can refer you to insurance providers.

Please post back here and let us know what you find out!

 

I never take passengers and I won't instruct out of concern about liability.

In the sad Fontana Carrera GT crash of some years ago, the driver of the car alleged to have triggered the crash reportedly contributed to the settlement.

 

Good lord, people! I'm no lawyer, but I have been in this business for three decades and there is plenty of case law to support "assumption of risk" by anyone that signs the waiver for a particular event and is a registered entry for a particular on-track event. This is why every organization MUST make SURE that anyone that gains entry to the track behind the wheel (or as a passenger) signs a waiver (and sometimes an additional waiver, to make sure) before getting out on track.

What this means is two-fold. First, the plaintiff has to prove gross negligence on the part of the defendant, not just negligence.

That's a heck of a barrier, right there.

Next, the insurance that is REQUIRED by tracks FOR EACH RENTER is available as secondary coverage in case no primary coverage exists by the participant defendant.

I'm sure Art can chime in (motorcycle racers are a different breed, and the mortality rates are MUCH higher for on-track incidents), but I have a business umbrella policy that I spend a GREAT DEAL of money on and I have clients sign my own waiver defining jurisdiction for any action, specifically on the part of themselves, their spouses and heirs, assuming all risk and releasing me, my spouse and heirs from any action.

I understand we're in a dangerous business, but with legal acknowledgement of that danger comes abrogation of the rights to obtain any judgement or sue, IIRC.

Be aware that I am NOT familiar with the glossary and jargon of legalese, so I may be throwing around incorrect or mistaken terms.

YMMV.

 

" ... but I have a business umbrella policy that I spend a GREAT DEAL of money on ... "


Now that you mention it, my neck still hurts from crashing at Sebring on your simulator ....

 

Uh-oh!

 

LOL! That was a good one. You know crashing in a simulator can be just as traumatic. You should seek the advise of a lawyer.

 

If he's anything like me after a traffic ticket, WCH has already received postcards in the mail and e-mail solicitions seeking retainers to represent him!

 

So, I suspect there you have the reality. Despite the good words aNd waivers duly signed about assumption of risk, where an attorney smells risk beyond those normally assumed or expected, the liability beast raises it's head.

I had a debate with K&K a few years ago about the level of liability coverage for an event organizer. My concern was where a driver, we'll call him "Fred", gets involved in an accident when, say, he spins in someone's fluids (you do all drain anti freeze and replace with water, right?). Fred has a terrible multiple car incident and becomes a vegetable as a result. Everyone involved in the event administration is sued by Fred's estate with multiple claims relating to Fred's medical costs, loss of income, lowering of quality of life and so on. All of which might be substantial.

Assumption of risk? Well, we've all got a reasonable assumption that our cars have been prepped in accordance with the organizer's requirements, right? What happens if Fred's car wasn't and the organizer knew or should have known? Or Fred had just bought his new expensive 200mph toy and the organizer put him in too advanced a run group.

Regardless of what can be proven, lawyers will assert and sue everyone involved

 

Sorry, I can't seem to edit my post on my iPad...

Defending yourself against a suit, regardless of how meritless you deem it to be can be expensive and a source of significant distraction.

Having been a (co-) organizer of an F-car track day, I was not convinced the liability coverage was sufficient and elected not to be involved again.

Peter has far more experience in this domain than me (and, by the way is a damn good coach) and I am sure others of you do too, so if I am wrong, please convey the error of my ways. But, I think you have to deal with the uncomfortable assertion above that Carrera driver made a financial contribution. Perhaps the assertion was reckless endangerment, which implies unusual risks and has a certain fraternity of lawyers smelling opportunity.

Philip

 

True, Philip, but my opinion is that it does boil down to the bold. My opinion is also worth what you pay for it )), but I have been involved in and/or operated hundreds of track events including competitions for over twenty years and I have spent a lot of time with co-organizers who possessed WAY more assets than myself.

I'm still convinced that while not impenetrable, it's not easy to get through the waiver shield of a properly run event.

Philip, it's great to hear from you and I hope to see you at the track this year!

 

You are talking to the wrong insurance companies. Go directly to K and K Insurance (kandkinsurance.com) and get a quote on the Racing Owners & Sponsors Liability policy. This coverage includes drivers and car owners. No, you are not racing, but yes, this coverage will still protect you.

K&K is where track day organizers and race teams go for coverage. I've purchased 1 day event insurance from them before and the rates were reasonable. This is going back some 15 years ago though, so obviously don't ask me what "reasonable" is in today's dollars.

You can also look at Lockton's HPDE Insurance Program for physical damage coverage for your car only.

Good luck and keep the rubber side down!

-Greg

 

If anyone is looking for either On-Track physical damage (for HPDE, Club Racing or Country Club Member Days) or Liability I can help. I am a new sponsor here and my specialty is insurance for just this type of thing.

 

As a now former HPDE school owner I can tell you that the liability waiver is a powerful document and has stood the test of the courts many times. Hooked On Driving has used K&K successfully in past years and is currently with American Specialty (http://amerspec.com/).

Best,
Rob

 

Drivers might be surprised at what they find if the ask about what insurance their club or event organizer holds. For example the SCCA holds a general $5mil policy with drivers listed as "additional insureds" including on track liaiblity. They even have a 1mil medical for participants that acts like a secondary safety blanket assuming you have a primary medical policy. You can see the exact wording for yourself in the SCCA GCR appendix B.3.3
http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/assets/2012GCR-updatedFebruary.pdf

One reason I race with SCCA is because they have great insurnance and even "ACLS" as a part of trackside emergency medical.

I do not know if NASA has the same thing but they copy SCCA on most things. NASA and SCCA or the ameteur bigdog organizations. Many other event organizers and clubs insure themselves and officers to the minimum and imdemnify tracks per the tracks requirements but participants are out in the cold. So know who your provider is!

 

If you signed a waiver, then whomever made you sign that waiver has purchased insurance (probably from K&K, or Lloyds), and the coverage extends to you. Make sure anyone else in your car has signed as well.

Depending on the type of event you are at, you may have double coverage. When I run track events for the track, the track buys insurance (over and above day-to-day coverage). When the track is rented by a club or organizaton to use the facility, that club must buy event insurance (over and above the track's coverage).

You are certainly free to buy additional coverage, as mentioned above, but it's just more of the same, and doesn't reduce the likelihood of being sued. In fact, it makes you a juicier target. If you are worried, then run with PCA. They buy huge policies.

 

But you may not be an "additional insured." You have to check with the people you run with. You are drawing conclusions about waivers that may not exist.