Vintage section Fake/Replica/Recreation/Rebody discussion

Hi Streetrod, you have a good point, but I think if the blue car were to roll on PB lawn as an original creation most of us would think it was just lovely, same as we do with some pretty ugly Vignale cars.

john

 

"Ugly Vignale"
Dems fightin' words pardner.
But I catch your drift.

 

The "hotrod" could just have easily been built on a 550 instead of loosing another interesting old car. Yes the 550 will be old one day, but it presently isn't and there are heaps of those so no need for tears.

I know the hotrod culture is about hotting up old cars, but heck you can make a hotrod on anything.

I also find it weird that somebody would make a Ferrari look like a Maserati, why not have built this on a Quattroporte?
Pete

 

Oh,oh, David, better eat my words or Marcel will walk in the with a baseball bat.

I love every Vin-ugly car ever made.

john

 

For me it fails because there is too much of everything. Details have been picked out of various coach builders' work during 5 years at least - so it fails to connect to a make, a coach builder and what is most important for me - a set point in time. That connection is what makes or breaks a hot rod or custom car for me as I have no interest for anything built after 1979 - (or 1964 if it is a Ferrari).

 

Truth is I never "got" the whole Vignale thing until I saw one in person.
Never mind that the details are like jewelry, the shapes are so evocative of their period that given the right mind set they can take you back in time. Almost magical.

 

From what I can tell the Moal car is on a new chassis:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/08/12/monterey-2010-moal-coachbuilders-debuts-ferrari-powered-gatto/

Not sure where the engine came from but I think the rest of it is fantastic. If there was a complete car that was parted out for this project my opinion would definitely change.

That being said, it's officially called the "Moal Gatto" and has zero badging suggesting otherwise. I think some of you are missing the point...

 

Cool car!

 

Don't be looking for a rational, thoughtful discussion here.....

 

Maybe I should change my opinion to make the ajatollahs of Ferrarichat happy?

Best wishes, Kare

 

And now the question is, after 610 posts, where are we and what have we learned??? One thing is clear, there is a real need for consensus and some form of organization to bring a sense of order to our deliberations. I would like to start with a suggestion for Bob Low. Please open a thread requesting a vote on whether the discussion of Ferrari replicas[and I mean ONLY Ferrari replicas} should be as part of the Vintage section or have a seperate section of its own. The voting should last for a specific length of time[preferably no more than 30 days] and be limited to a yes answer to one of two questions "Discussion of Ferrari replicas should be part of the Vintage section" or "Discussion of Ferrari replicas should have its own seperate section". I personally believe the latter is the better choice which would allow those with an interest in replicas a place of their own. This would clear up the Vintage section for those who wish to keep it "pure". The policing of this voting can be done by the server allowing one vote per Ferrarichat password. Let's see what this leads to and then go from there. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

Bob Low??

And before you even start down this track you need to define what the word "replica" means. We will no doubt have to have a variety of votes on definitions.

Frankly I think we should just continue as we are. We've lasted long enough, and pretty much happily, with the way it is.

 

Understand yours and Tongascrew's point of view. A poll does not have to be a binding result, and I personally would like to see the overall opinion.

 

Thanks for your consiceration.My feeling on this is to start off with just this one question. It may turn out that the resulting vote confirms your opinion to continue "as we are' which would put an end to this effort However if there is a strong majority vote for a replica site and you are willing to go ahead with one we can then get into the issues such as the definition of a replica. My feeling is that this should be broken down into three and no more than four categories. I have specific ideas on what these might be and will be more than happy to contribute in any way. If we get this far my feeling would be for you and you alone to make the final decision on the different categories. If you would like to consider my opinions of the categories,fine, but I would suggest you select a small group of "experts" for advice. The organization for the P4 collecters I am sure would have some ideas. A simple questionare to the "experts" with a a choice of answers for each suggested option would be by recommendation. As with all "constitutions" not everyone will be satisfied but it is best to keep things orderly and relatively simple and encouage everyone to work within the system. As you know I have over several years expressed in FChat my interest in the need for some kind of "replica" organization and I sense for the first time the possibility of getting started. I greatly appreciate your consideration. My e-mail address is [email protected] if interested. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

I have commissioned the building of a car in tha shape of a P4 from scratch.

So far we are four years into it. I am using a V12 from a 456 and it will wear an aluminium body. I would expect my car (when finished), to be discussed (if anyone cares enough), in a 'replica' sub-forum, not the classic section of FChat. FWIW

 

What I'm about to say I'm not saying out of spite, envy, or negativity. My understanding of the current reality is that some people referred to as experts (who probably are pretty knowledgeable, granted) are paid by others for their opinions, and they will therefore carry a financial and political bias which may elevate or do harm to vehicle reputations. This happens anyways outside of this site, but now you propose to bring that highly politicized process to this forum? It just seems unlikely to add value to the open discussion currently afforded the group.

 

Absolutely! All of the small detail work, (knobs, switch handles, window cranks, etc) that most would consider to be unnecessary, Vignale treated as integral and required, for the art and the "aura."

 

What is interesting is Doug Nye agrees with Julio Batista and Marcel Massini but was recently on Renaissance Man with Alain De Cadenet in which the Lancia Ferrari was featured. This vehicle was a clear replica as stated in the show, but did not hear anything negative mentioned about it or replicas in general when it attended the Goodwood. Revival and Nye and De Cadenat were speaking about it.

 

It's interesting to look at how aficionados of other makes view the subject.
Apparently while Bugattists appreciate patina more than most they are more tolerant of "bitsas" and recreations than we are.
I believe that the BOC not only recognizes some acknowledgedly unoriginal Bugs but will even issue a BOC serial number to them.
I would guess that there being a preeminent organization (and no factory competition) allow for a greater conscensus in that community.
Or that they've been at it longer and are a bit more mature

BTW I intend no reference to any posters most, if not all, have expressed honest and considered opinions.

 

It is perhaps worth noting that many significant Bugatti(especially in the US) passed through the hands of the notorious Ray Jones. Bugatti's with unquestioned provenance command a strong multiple of lesser examples.

 

There is often a disconnect between market value, particularly at the very high end, and the opinion of the marque community as a whole.

 

Certainly true, and probably rightly so. But I am not aware of quite the level of vituperation in the discussions of those 'lesser examples'. Must be that maturity thing Vizla suggested....

 

And ironicly enough many Ferraris have gone from one body style to another as they passed through the hands of Ray's son Greg.

 

Mike,

My guess is they didn't want to bite the hand (Bamford) that owns it ;>)

 

Saw this in raw metal at Rancho Mirage concours
Sunday. Looked good. Has real Ferrari V12 engine, six carburetors.
The bodyman was there, from Anaheim.
Anybody got any opinion on the car?
sorry I don't know how to post pictures.