Drove a 991 S

I did about 20 minutes around a loop close to the dealership and got it up to ~90mph - just a quick run, not a thorough test drive by any measure.

Anyway, the car is incredibly comfortable and luxurious. The Panamera center console is nicely laid out & all of the controls are exactly where they should be. The cabin gets an A+.

As for the performance, I'd describe it as vague. The PDK is blindingly precise - noticable better than the F1 in my old 430. The steering is quick but it feels strangely muted. The car is definitely fast with plenty of grunt but without the liveliness of even a 996. Of course the engine is miles better than a 996 with ~100 more HP, unfortunately the whole package felt so numb it is difficult to appreciate it.

I'm sure it measures brilliantly across the board and is "better" than any 911 that came before it. The cabin is so quiet and luxurious, the suspension eliminates most of the road feel and the engine is so smooth. Combine these attributes and the feeling of athleticism has been removed.

The 991 is a full on luxury GT is every way. It makes for a perfect daily driver, probably in the same way as a Jaguar XK would. Again, it is undoubtedly a great car, but more or less indistinguishable in overall feel from a comparable BMW, Merc, Jag, etc. In the end, you can't fault a car for what it isn't, you can only judge it for what it is. If it was designed as a luxury GT then it is a home run. As a nimble, lively, involving sports car it went 0 for 4.

The one I drove had a sticker of $112K. Honestly, I wouldn't sniff it at 50% of that price simply because it is not even close to what I think of as a 911. With the direction modern cars are moving it is no wonder that air-cooled 911's are in such demand.

 

Very interesting - and this was just about what I was expecting.

I am keeping my old 993 Targa forever.

(my stepson has a 997, but I am still hanging on to the last of the aircooled cars - 126,000 miles now)

 

Funny, but just yesterday I met a new neighbor who was washing his 2011 Jaguar XKR 175 special edition. He told me he was going to buy a 911 but after all his years of lusting after a great sports car (he now had money to spend, kids out of college) but at his age he wanted more luxury than the 2011 911 offered. He strayed into the Jag dealership on one of his many trips to the Porsche dealer, and that was the end of the story.

His last car was a BMW... so your review is spot-on! And I'm sure the marketing data Porsche uses, must have shown the same thing... the majority of rich older guys want luxury and comfort.

Photo- my wife sitting in a 991 last weekend at St Armands Circle car show. She remarked that our Cayman cost $60k and the 991 had a sticker at $120k ... and she didn't see double the value, but she's not into luxury (she likes a small, stripped down, sports car).
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does anyone think borrowing interior bits or styling from the panamera will hinder sales or hurt it in the eyes of those classically more the purist?

as a note, the panamera interior may be the nicest i have ever seen in a luxo sedan...really impressive environment!!

pcb

 

I think they already dismissed the purists & couldn't care less about them as far as the base models are concerned. It seems odd to disenfranchise longtime Porsche enthusiasts in favor of an undeniably homogenized product. Hopefully they'll still make the semi-raw Boxster Spyder, Cayman R, GT3 type of cars to appeal the driver...at a premium, of course.

On the plus side, all of the shared bits & pieces across the entire Porsche range should make for cheaper replacement parts in the future.

 

I just don't like it from a ergonomics point of view. I sat in the 991 and didn't have anywhere to rest my arm (we use the car for long weekend trips). The armrest is now covered in buttons. (Photos from Boxster/Cayman... but it shows the same change in the center armrest). The Panamera and SUV had room for a big center armrest with buttons on it. The 991 and 981 don't... seems a poor use of limited space.
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$112k sticker???????

Forget that noise.

 

I took a close look too... As did several of my "Porsche" pals.

We all think that Porsche will sell a ton of them - to the new breed of Porsche drivers/owners (read: To Panamera & Cayenne people). But not one of us have to have one as of today. This will be a great car for someone who has never experienced a 911, but for those of us that have... I dunno.

We all also remarked on the price upgrade. A dealer actually told me "you cant buy ANY car for money like it use to be, even my wife's X5 has gone up $10k since I bought her one a few years ago". That may be true but that does not make it any easier to look at a basic Carrera for $120k.

The new 991 is a super grand tourer / if that is what the new Porsche owner wants then this is it.

 

I can see you put quotations around "better"-good man!!! lol

I'll stick with my 1982 SC. No airbags, no ABS, no power steering, no sat/nav, and NO BS! Beautiful day here in NY so I took it out today. If I NEED a watercooled PCar later 996s should serve the purpose.

 

Well, if you previously owned an F430.....

How would you compare it to the 997 Carrera S?

Personally, I love the 964. I dream of having the ultimate pair of 964 Turbo 3.6 and 964 RS.

 

I've owned various 911s from early 911s up to 996. Prior to the 996, I owned 911s as weekend sports cars that were, at some point, driven at the track even without much modification. I don't feel the same way about the last decades worth of 911s (sans GT3).

Starting with the 996, I started using a 911 more as a daily driver. As a comfortable GT-type car, the 991 seems to fit my daily driver, luxo GT preference. However at the 991's price range, there are other potentially better GT car options.

 

If you check P dealer inventory there's no shortage of these cars available.

 

You're right on target. If someone has never logged any miles in older 911's the 991 will appear to be sublime. However, I think those familiar with the evolution of the line will be disappointed. I won't go so far as to say the 991 no longer feels like a rear engine car, but it is getting pretty close.

A 911 was unique from its inception. You bought an SC/3.2 over a 3x8 (or anything else) specifically because it was 911 & drove entirely different than anything else on the road. It now seems as though the 911-ness, so to speak, has all but been bred out of it. Once you remove the singular 911 steering...that which makes a 911 a 911, you've lost the spirit of the car. What you're left with is an ordinary luxury GT. IMO, instead of retaining their unique product Porsche has thrown themselves into the same pool as every other manufacturer. Now, the consumer gets similar performance and much better looks from a Vantage or Granturismo.

To me, the mark of a good sports car is whether or not I have *****-eating grin on my face when I remove the key after nice run. Maybe I'd have that grin if I could spend some time on technical roads and get a feel for the car. Regardless, I was left underwhelmed by my first impression as it relates to previous 911's.

 

Peanuts; the sticker accelerates faster than the car: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=336251&p=140796647

 

i must be an outlier.
i have had 3 911s in the past.
i test drove the new 911 and loved it.
the updated pdk is better than the previous version.
the vehicle has a wonderful auditory feedback from the exhaust.
and i like the cabin improvements.
i have an sl63, which is a true luxury sport car.
the 911 is far lighter and much more nimble.
perhaps it is the lack of a manual transmission that bothers some purists.
i predict there will be no problem selling the new model.

 

I completely agree.
All the other people I know who drove the 991 loved it.
I certainly did. I'm looking forward to the 991 C4S. I think it will be a perfect complement to the 599.
Having had a 997.1 C4S (which I loved to pieces) and 997.1 Turbo, I thought the 991 was wonderful.
It still looks, feels and sounds like a 911 whilst having been improved in almost every conceivable way. I found the new electric steering to be great despite what some may say.
The car inspired great confidence when driven hard and was a true joy to throw around in the hills. The chassis was absolutely superb. The engine and PDK were both fantastic and worked as one in perfect symbiosis. The PSE's sound was sublime.
The ride quality was surprisingly good and much improved over the 997. The car also felt small and compact like a 911 should. I couldn't find anything to dislike.
I think Porsche hit the nail in the head with the 991 and it will be a great success...and another great 911.
I, for one, am a fan.

 

And... Cut.

Yes, you are comparing it there to a SL63, YOU are the EXACT customer Porsche is now catering too. You will certainly adore the 991.

Ah yes. And you too are the EXACT customer Porsche is catering too now. Look at the cars you list as a 911... a 997C4S, and turbo 997... Both fine grand touring cars. But not pure cars like a 911.

Just speaking for myself I call these 911's from my past 30 years of Porsche driving "911's" = My early 911 (luved), my 911 S/C coupe (owned 9 years), my 993 coupe (owned for 3 years and sold for business capitol), my 996 GT3 coupe (owned 7 years). Notice: Not one over-weight option laden cruiser among them. And... That is why I am not a new Porsche customer today.

The 991 is a wonderful machine, but its built for you guys - not me.

 

i don't mean to be disrespectful, but i doubt porsche is "building the car for me", at least not me specifically.
i love the new 991.
i liked the previous generation 911s as well.
i believe the design has evolved and gotten better.
i believe the 991 is a "true sports car".
whether or not i also own a luxury sports car is irrelevant (by the way, i also own a 430 spider).
if porsche sells many 991's (which i predict they will), the public will have spoken.

 

Interesting reading. The posts kind of mirror what I have read in reviews, especially about the steering. Some found it numb and anoying, others love it. Given there is a fair amount of criticism of the feel, I'm willing to bet Porsche is already working feverishly to improve it. I have no interest in a 911, so I follow this only to satisfy curiosity.

Dave

 

Well said. But that my friend is exactly our point. The current Porsche buying public consists of people with no (or at least limited) prior knowledge of what a real 911 is. Heck, in recent history I have not made a new acquaintance with even one person who would know how to adjust a carb correctly, or set points (well enough one who would even KNOW what carbs or points do). They are 991 people. I am certainly not saying that such trivial items should be a requirement for 991 ownership - but I am saying that it probably is or has been a requirement for guys who have owned real 911's.

Again, the 991 is great, its super great, but its a grand touring car first & foremost. And that is just what the current crop of Panamera & Cayenne owners (Porsche's best sellers) want in their garages.

 

I like the discussion here, and would like to add the following......

1. As Porsche has continued to develop and improve the 911, one significant accomplishment has been to reduce the negative handling characteristics inherent in a rear engine design. Whether some guys like the 'loose' aspect of swinging that weight around or not, I think most of us welcome this particular evolution.

2. GT cars seem to emphasize comfort and luxury over pure sports car handling. I think those boundary lines are fading as GT cars become dynamicaly more capable (in the areas of steering, braking, acceleration, cornering, and overall performance) and as sports cars become more luxurious. The 996 was shunned by 993 purists, but the new watercooled car had higher levels of performance as well as improved luxury.

3. And finally, I lament the move toward PDK and the automation of any other function of driving the car that I'd like to perform for myself as part of the driving experience. I want a stick shift...alway have and always will. And please.....self-dimming rear view mirrors? Yuck. Surely some of the posters here have been/would be seduced by PDK or other comparable options?

 

drove the car and found it....boring!

 

Shouldn't you wait for the GT3 And GT3 RS variants before coming to such a conclusion?

I have driven a friend's 997.2 GT3 RS extensively on Route Napoleon and, whilst I may not have your insights as to what a "real 911" might be, I found it to be a spectacular driver's car (and certainly not a GT car).

 

Oh yes, I would be honored, and I will look it over with great hope. But the elongated wheelbase (which by the way was implemented because of EPA rules (egad) that dictated that move) and the government mandated stability management (nannies - not for me - that are included on the 997 GT3RS you mention BTW) and the obvious over 3000 lb weight penalty will be hurdles that only new-money Porsche buyers will ignore.

But I will drive over & view it as giddy as a school girl once they conger it up.

 

They've raised the level of the window sill. Every 911 version I"ve ever driven....one of the constants has always been that they all pretty much "feel" the same as far as sitting position goes.

Now...for the first time....with the window sill being higher...you can't really set your left elbow on the sill and your left hand on the wheel at the same time like you could in previous versions.

For some strange reason....that bugs me.

And I found the same thing with the console...I bet I turned the flashers on 50 times by accident.