why Red Bull will not dominate | FerrariChat

why Red Bull will not dominate

Discussion in 'F1' started by Ferraripilot, Mar 5, 2012.

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  1. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    John!
    #1 Ferraripilot, Mar 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Crazy? Read on.

    The new Red Bull exhaust, while very clever looking, is without a doubt an uncompromising solution to the new exhaust regulations. Red Bull are attempting to seal their diffuser again but this time it is at the expense of laminar flow around the sidepods being blocked by two things; high velocity exhaust gases, and new bodywork built specifically for the exhaust gases increasing their Coanda effect pathway. RB8 has a 2cm slot which attempts to maintain some of this laminar flow through the coke bottle section, but what's clear is it's not nearly what Mclaren has going. Look for a very tail happy Red Bull not nearly as stable in high speed turns as before.


    The Mclaren employs a compromise between the two. They do not have a specific path or ramp carved from the floor to the sidepod, but rather a substantial bulge which maintains a significant undercut which of course one does not need a CFD model to know it flows more to the back end than the Red Bull 2cm slot. This, in a word is better. The Red Bull has a clever look about it but it's novelty is about to get old and quick.

    What's not known is if attempting to seal the diffuser is the way to go at all, but rather is it better to maintain all laminar flow and have the exhaust system supercharging *already existing flow*.

    Mercedes have done just that in keeping their sidepods as tight as possible and not mucking about with blowing the diffuser, but rather simply charge the air headed to the rear impact structure and have the suspension direct it between the diffuser and beam wing thus aiding diffuser extraction. So in other words, they are not trying to make the diffuser larger like RB and Mclaren are, they are just making it work better by creating a new pressure zone.


    So this will be a battle of who can either make the biggest diffuser (RB and Mclaren) or who can make their diffuser simply work best (Mercedes).
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  2. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    What said Charlie Whiting about Red Bull´s "hole"?

    BTW, is Renault and Mercedes still blowing off-throttle or what? Some people say that they still sound like if they were blowing.
     
  3. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    Red Bull are the ones conjectured to still be blowing off-throttle. Merc were the ones who closed the 'shut down cylinder' potential loophole.


    Whiting has not said anything regarding Mclaren's exhaust so I don't expect him to say anything regarding Red Bull's. However if they hole you are referring to is the large rectangular slot they have in their diffuser now, I hope he does say something. If RB are saying the new giant slot is their starter hole than they have to adhere to the starter hole size rules which it definitely is not within.
     
  4. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    I don't expect RB to dominate....but they will win it IMO.
     
  5. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    They have the ability to win, but not as much and not as dominant. I am personally steering away from saying any of the top two are going to walk away with it as it will indeed be very close.
     
  6. LightGuy

    LightGuy Four Time F1 World Champ
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    The BS stops when the green flag drops.

    Its fun to speculate but without testing the knowledge, inventiveness, and experience of the chief designer (given equal budgets) will win the day.
    Of course he could have just as easily chased the rabbit down the wrong hole.
    But I'd bet not.
     
  7. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Could be wish full thinking.
     
  8. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    John!

    Several great designers have gone down a sour path. Not saying that's what Newey did, but I believe Newey's design is not the best on the grid aerodynamically.
     
  9. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    So, put yer money where yer mouth is and get an entry in to the fantasy league! :)

    RB are of course the most expensive chassis/motor on the grid, so going with someone else allows more for jockeys.....

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  10. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    I think the Silver Arrows will dominate..
     
  11. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    What are the odds that Newey missed the boat?

    Writing off RB at this point makes no sense.
     
  12. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    You could be right. This is all technical conjecture, but not completely. CFD models have shown Red Bull's exhaust system is worth only 15-30m/s around the diffuser when last year they had a full and massive 230m/s (measured at 124mph). This being said, RB have gambled with an uncompromising arrangement while at least Mclaren have an arrangement they can change should it be necessary.
     
  13. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    It don't mean a thing until they race.
    Reading the tea leaves is fun but going on past experience I'd be shocked if RB has screwed the pooch.
     
  14. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
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    Between 1% and 6%
     
  15. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    So roughly 3.5%

    Thanks. It's always good to have a number :)
     

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