Vintage section Fake/Replica/Recreation/Rebody discussion

It's easy you buy a copy of Vbulletin,

then go to Hostmonster.com, register your site name and buy some space.

Then pay to have Vbulletin load it on hostmonster. Read the Vbulletin manual for a few nights open the site...

 

Thats right....

 

Sounds easy but I have to decline. I am trying to complete an on going 6 year project to fill in the blanks and make corrections in the Barchetta pages for just over 600 of the early cars from 01C thru the P4 cars. I have almost 7000 pages of text and pictures which I am trying now to organize and properly file and a library of close to 700 volumes which is continuing to be researched and expanded. All this takes many hours daily and some considerable expense. Now that we seem to have a thread to work from I will be glad to contribute what I can. Lets hope someone or organization [ like Red Line Restorations?] picks up the glove to create a web site for the replicas just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

Have a look in the Fake/Replica thread at post #678. Got any ideas??? just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

Perhaps this has been discussed earlier in the thread:

What about the Zagato rebodied SWB California #2491?

or the Drogo rebodied 0147E 212 Inter?

What if 3445 still had the Drogo body and the original GTO body was destroyed?

Does the car have a historical value if the rebody was comissioned a few decades ago?

 

Period rebodies are NOT replicas.

Pete

 

Funny how the Fake/Replica/Recreation/Rebody discussion is the most popular in vintage section.

 

75% of the posts are people trying to defend original cars I imagine.

Pete

 

Possibly but it's a topic that affects all F car owners, yet the management wants it to be hidden away.
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I disagree on 0147E, IMO that IS a replica albeit a very early one. I wouldn't call that a period rebody.

 

Completely agree. Possibly one of the first Ferrari replicas.

Pete

 

I thought 0147E has the original chassis and original engine. That makes 2 out of 3.

 

So do many GTO replicas, but they are still replicas ... with genuine parts underneath. Thus many people still call these replicas real Ferraris, which they are (according to the registery office) ... but what makes a real GTO is not the metal and rubber bits but the chassis number and the continuous history since then.

In 0147E's case the body was definitely made to replicate another Ferrari, but yes there is a genuine Ferrari underneath.

We cannot underestimate the significance of "continuous history" when it comes to these debates. A genuine GTO that was crashed badly and had it's chassis remade by an engineering company say in America and was then reassembled is still a genuine GTO, it just now has a remanufactured chassis ... just like it now has new tyres, new engine oil and filters, spark plugs, etc. Of course the market value for this car would be less than one with it's original chassis, but it is still a GTO and not a replica.

Now the Breadvan would be considered a replica if there had been a previous Ferrari with the same body shape ... but there isn't, thus the Breadvan is a modified SWB.
Pete

 

Of course, it's any man's decision if these examples are replicas, and, don't worry, they are not Ferraris.

Willment in England dug four old GT40 chassis that had never been completed
and sent them to Bryan Wingfield for finishing out, with 302 V8 engines from Mathieson.
Appartently the FIA gave one of them a certificate that allows it to be vintage raced as a GT40 and each of the four has a serial number issued by Ford back in the Sixties.

Lola cars reportedly resurrected the T70Mk.IIIb and I heard some of those are being vintage raced, though made decades after the originals

If this is allowed, why hasn't Ferrari made some more 250Ps, 250LMs and P3/4s?
Or would that tie up resources they need to make new cars?

 

"Continuous history" might be expanded to include what is "generally considered to be the the correct body". An example is 0780TR/0808TR. Three other bodies were created for this car before the Fantuzzi body on it today, which is a reproduction of the second version of the original Scaglietti body on 0780. So what exactly constitutes "continuous history" and the "correct body".How about the original Touring bodied car later rebodied by Ghia, Vignalle Scaglietti or....Is the rebody considered "the correct body" or a "rebody" There probably needs to be a clarification of this if we are ever going to then established a few other categories of "reproductions". A study of the FCA concourse judging rules should provide guide lines to go by. Let's see what folks have to say. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

IMO if a body is made to reproduce a body that the car once wore before it is not a replica but a restoration.

Lola did this because they needed money I reckon. Ferrari go to great lengths in marketing themselves as modern car company looking at the future. Making old models again would not fit with this, unfortunately.

Pete

 

many W.O Bentley cars now sport non orginal bodies or open tourer bodies rather then enclosed ones,few people have an issue with that,many of the bodies were worn out thus replaced.
What would our thoughts be if Ferrari was a pre WW2 marque and cars had non orginal bodies?

 

To think I know of 2 x 250PF's in Melbourne that were chopped up,damm i should have bought one,always wanted a drum brake vintage Ferrari.

 

This has happened to Alfa Romeos too and I think it is very sad. Many saloon Alfas are now replicas of the more sporty models. One day we will only have books to view our automotive history with, as it was not just sportscars.

Pete

 

often the bodies were worn out,but yes a shame to see so many saloon bodies chopped up.

 

They could have been restored or replicated ... but nope everybody wants a sportscar ...

Pete

 

easy said then done,one of the issues is the wooden frames rot out but of often the bodies are to far gone,rust,cracking,they loose there strength.
But a shame so many good bodies were lost.

 

Hi, I'm new to the forum and was impressed by the passion with which users defend their ideas and I congratulate all of you.
My opinion about the topic is as follows:
1) rebuild = rebuild car with the same characteristics as the original (fake)
2) restoration=To reconstruct a car with the same characteristics as the original starting from an original base.
3)rebodied= build a car with characteristics different from the base (taste or attempted fraud)
4) base original= frame or chassis intact or repaired, but of the original model of belonging.
5)Ferrari P4 / 5 is a fantastic work done in the same period of construction of the Ferrari Enzo, not after 50 years to bring up one thing for what it is not, the Breadvan late built in the same period of Ferrari swb not after 50 years.hearthfelt compliments Mr. Jim.You have the same thing of the old breadvan.
6)replica= car built by copying the original during the same period or later, usually takes place in the motorcycle industry (Hailwood replica Ducati etc etc), is original if it is a replica built by the original manufactureror under license, and usually is called "replica",replicate is the same of moltiplicate.
7)properties= any person who owns an object more or less valuable may make full use as it sees fit, unless the item is protected by a special law or is under the pèrotection of the UNESCO, in the case of the vintage cars I am not aware that there are laws to protect the originality of the cars, there are the rules of the competitions or the rules of beauty contest, more or less serious, but are not laws.
To destroy or repaint Monalisa is a moral ethics and legal crime, destroy a GTE to make a GTO is not a crime, is legal, but, ethically objectionable.
Destroying a GTE to make a GTO I think should be done for two basic reasons, to use a trick to owning something not possedibile (in art are copies of craft master), or use a trick to have something to sell as original ( crime in this case)
I think that many times the desire to exhibit is disguised by the passion,is the same as those who buy the fake rolex daytona and walkwith the wrist in front of the chin

I ask you to apologize for having bored, this is my thinking and I've represented it, I also apologize for my English.
regards
Salvatore Murgo

 

Your English is Fine Sir!

 

tnks