Engine in cam belt change 355?

(Do I smell popcorn?)



There are many threads here on belt change w/o dropping the engine -- and many more over on a UK based Ferrari chat site. I think the consensus here is "don't do it"

 

Best quote so far this year.

 

Wow! Fighting words, and whether you meant it or not, it was directed at one of the nicest members on the site.

OK, so here are words from someone who has turned wrenches on the 355.

Yes, you can access the front of the engine with the tank dropped. No, you cannot remove the main crankshaft pulley because the car cross member is in the way. No, you cannot really mount a degree wheel and turn it so that degreeing the cams in the car is virtually impossible, and that is one of the main reasons to do a cam belt.

Yes, you can change the water pump and the steering pump that way.

 

I can give you the perspective of a 348 owner... not sure how that translates to a 355. I recently did an engine-out "major", but than had a leaky crankshaft oil seal (sore subject... see prior posts of mine). To replace it I did the tank-out trick. All told, I'm not sure it saved time or effort. Yeah, you don't have to split brake and clutch lines, but the tank dropping is harder than it appears. You'll still have to disconnect shift cables and bend them way out of the way, pull wheel and fender liners and move fuel filters to get to tank fittings. Getting the fuel filler hoses off the tank wasn't easy, nor getting them re attached. You'll have to un-bolt the front engine mounts and jack up the front of the engine, which depending on clearences on the 355 probably means disconnecting water hoses from the water pump and throttle cable. It's still a lot of stress on everything else. The working space once the tank is out is VERY tight. There was a picture on a site of someone with their head in the space, and it looked roomy... not so. Once you get you head, hands with wrenches etc. in there you have to be a contortionist to function. Then there's the question of getting the timing marks correct. Not sure on a 355, but with a 348 the most accurate marks are on the cams under the valve covers. If you're going to remove valve covers it would be way easier to do it with the engine out. Also if you want to check valve clearences, change cam seals etc. you must pull the engine. If you ever thought about a gold kit... also much easier with engine out.
If it was just a water pump replacement... presuming it can't be done from "above" the tank-out might work well. For cam belt, I'm not convinced

 

The front pulley does not have to be removed anyway. Its only slid forward so the new belts can be sliped on. That can be done for both methods, the original poster will see when he does the belt change.
There is no reason to remove the front pulley.

 

Well...I've turned a few wrenches and serviced many, many hundreds of these cars over the last 30 years, so I guess my answer might meet with your standards. The better question you might ask is: If I want to do the job correctly and be able to set up the cams with a degree wheel, what might be the best way to accomplish this? Answer: Remove the engine from the chassis.

Or perhaps another question might be: Can I do this job without removing the engine from the car? Answer: Of course you can, if you don't mind doing a sub-standard job and not really having a clue where the cams are or were timed. And, doing this service with the engine in, all the stuff that's likely needed that wasn't done in the past, still won't be done.

Then again, some Internet expert who only knows what they know about these cars from reading on the Internet is going to tell me otherwise. Fine, been there...done that. I just don't understand why folks try to take shortcuts when servicing these cars....

 

Some guys just insist on doing everything the "hard way". Dropping the engine and doing it "right", just isn't that hard. If you don't have the equipment to do it properly, you shouldn't be doing it at all.

 

Even if you could change the belt, there are many other components of the 30k major service that can't be performed with the engine in. How do you propose to adjust the cam gears, for example? Caveat: I have worked on my Ferraris, and I've rebuilt Jag and other engines, but I have never done an engine out on a 355.

 

Why is it necessary to degree the cams every time you do a belt change? This has always puzzled me. I could see doing it the first time just to make sure the factory marks are correct, but once verified it would seem to be a waste of time and effort to degree every time. That's what the marks are for.

 

I don't think it is necessary every time. Do it once and verify the cam marks are correct if they are not make your own. Then every time after that just make sure the marks line up.

 

Gdude,

I am going to borrow a line from Ernie "it is your car, your money, do what you like."

As far as insulting Daniel, I did not take it that way, but you did not clarify in your statement either way. Reading someone else writing is always tough.

Good luck with your car.

 

As someone who has not only pulled an engine, but also the tank (by the way, that was my mug inside the tank space ), out of my 348,........ do yourself a favor and just take the whole thing out. But if you insist on changing the belts on your 355 by only removing the tank, have at it. I for one would LOVE to see a how-to thread with PLENTY of pictures of your engine IN belt change. Did I mention we like LOTS of pictures.

 

I think there´s no point in doing the major with the engine in, in fact I can only see advantages in dropping it.

First of all, you are able to do the cam timing right, you can sit down and work comfortably, you can inspect everything thoroughly, you can clean every bit of the engine, if you discover some part that needs to be changed it will probably be a lot easier (exhaust headers, engine mounts...)

 

I am a long time lurker and have worked on my 308 and 328 in the past. Belt changes are quite easy on those. I, like anyone else on the planet, just die when I hear the exhaust note of a 355.... Oohhhh. But, the engine out service is a total deal breaker for me. I have no problem saying that upfront.

Here is a totally stupid uneducated question (get ready).... couldnt a guy just cut a large removable access panel into the firewall and make un-bolting all the lines to the gas tank easier? Maybe even pull the gas tank out through the interior of the car....While also using that access panel to do the belts?

Yes, its destructive, just wondering.

 

Nope, because the fuel lines are still accessed from the engine bay, and the tank is waaaaaay too big to remove through the passenger cabin. It has to come out the bottom.

 

There are some unwritten rules here:

Don't ask about service intervals (search)
Don't ask about engine out vs. engine in (search)
There is no consensus on Manual vs. F1 (it's personal)
There is no consensus on coupe vs. open top (it's personal)
There are some people you don't ever hint at insulting (Daniel, Dave Helms, Goth, Napolis too but he never comes down here)

A skilled mechanic can drop a motor in a 355 in 4 hours.

 

The one time I witnessed evidence of an in-the-car major was a certain 355 that had a huge notch taken from the cross member to access the pulley. It was a hatchet job to be sure.

 

Not to mention that the bulkhead is a load bearing piece of structure. You cut a hole in it you will need some ring doublers to handle the diagonal tension stresses.

what is a ring doubler? - think of .125" thick aluminum sheet that is 3-5 inches larger than the cut-out (but with a similar size hole in it as the bulkhead). This is riveted on with a double row of rivets (around the cut-out) to regain the strength you lost by butchering the bulkhead.

 

I would agree, assuming you are on your second major, and have previously verified the marks are correct. I doubt that cam lobe wear would change the dwell enough to require a follow on adjustment. However, if you haven't verified them, my factory certified independant mechanic says that the factory marks are notoriously inaccurate.