Engine in cam belt change 355?

I agree with 99% of what fastradio said as well. The only think I don't agree on is the idea that there are no shortcuts. At times doing things the manufacturer way with only OEM parts will result in a substandard result. I think Hill engineering and other companies have shown better parts can be made in some cases. And there are times in which a much simpler and faster method is found to accomplish the same task. That said, doing the cambelts and tensionsers in the car on a 355 isn't one of them.

 

I've done the engine out twice and I've seen engine-in done.
The main advantage of engine-in is that you don't disturb all the ancillary items when you do the service. To do it, you need to drop the fuel tank (undo the lines, electrics and the 2 straps) but ideally need the car in the air for this as the tank is fairly large.

To do the change, you need to undo the crank pulley bolt which is handily blocked by the front cross member, so options are either cut out a section in the cross member or undo the engine mounts and jack the engine slightly while the car is in the air to gain sufficient clearance.

Once there, you have to get the covers off then get the tensioners in and the pins in place to hold them. As the 355 has hydraulic lifters, the cams should stay put while you slip the belt off (I'd advise putting it in TDC before you do all this regardless) so changing the belts should be fairly straight forward. You obviously can't use a degree wheel to set timing but if its running fine, I'd leave well enough alone.

Get ready to work in very cramped conditions. If something goes wrong, you may need to drop the engine anyway.

The major advantage of the engine out method is that checking over all the other parts of the engine while its out is very simple, as well as the obvious ease of access and space issue.

If its your first attempt, I'd be tempted the drop the engine as you'll have a far better chance of spotting and sorting any other issues which may need addressing as part of the service, plus getting 15-20year old nuts and bolts loose is much easier when you have some room to work.

If that's all old hat, the car is 100% spot on and the only thing needed is the belts, I'd be tempted to try the engine-in method.

95% of owners who simply have the service stamp in the book wouldn't have a clue how their belts were done, if they were even done at all, so the fact you're physically doing them shows the car has been looked after, regardless of how you do it. You're just swapping 2 rubber belts, not performing open-heart surgery.

Just my 2c worth.

 

Think very carefully before you do is my sincere advise. You will get attacked for doing so mark my words.
Think about it, why do you think you cant find any technical information on the subject, its not worth the hassle. I have read many arguments over the years on here when i was a lurker. I mean dam it was only 7-8 years ago that it was the general consensus that the belt change could not be done in situ.
Like Catussed i have done belt changes on 355s both ways over the years, in and out. So some of us know real world pros and cons of both methods. While some just regurgitate stuff read on Internet forums then pay some one else to do the work anyway.
If there is anything regarding the engine in method that you cant find, drop me a PM and i will answer you, posting it up on here is not worth the hassle IMO.

 

When one measures the cam timing on a car with 30K miles on the belts one might dfind as much as 4 degrees of belt stretch has occured over the life of the belts. Just putting on new belts does not undo this timing irregularity.

I would be surprised if anyone could read out the factory timing marks to better than 5 degrees. {Ever wonder why a degree wheel is 1 foot in diameter or larger? now compare this to the diameter of the Came markings...}

The WSM specifies the cam timing to plus-or-minus 1 degree.

Due to wear on the cam lobes, lifter faces, and other parts wear; where the factory set up the cam timing might not still be where the cam timing wants to be setup today. Even if the factory did it perfectly!

So, you can just throw belts at the problem, or you can use a degree wheel and some dial indicators and do the job correctly.

 

That's not a typical situation though (30k miles). The typical situation is 5 years and 8-10k miles (or less). I see where you're coming from, but I could see doing the engine out every other belt change to verify timing depending on usage etc.

 

I've dropped the engine on my 355 three times now and each time I've found issues I didn't expect that needed attention and wouldn't have been spotted without dropping the engine. In the long run this has saved me money and potential breakdowns eg. chafed hoses, a hairline crack on the oil heat exchanger, trapped cables etc.

If you *only* want to change the belts then one method is as valid as any other. If you want to do preventive maintainance on a car that's going to be at least 13 years old then drop the engine and take the opportunity to inspect everything.

As an aside one of the main exponents of the engine in method was an independent shop based in UK -- they are now out of business. Are there any pro shops out there doing it with the engine in?

 

Good grief.

If you really think a shop goes out of business for doing engine-in belt changes, then I question of you're in a positiion to offer advice on one method versus another. If not, why bother posting it at all? They wenet out of business for reasong shich are well covered elsewhere.

And of everyone posting up about using a degree wheel. Good on you. How many official dealerships do this? Let me stick my neck out here and say none. They all use the factory timing marks.

ETA: As in the post above, dropping the engine allows you to spot issues that are otherwise easy to miss.

Otherwise, engine in is arguably better. There's just less to go wrong.

 

Don't be so touchy, you're reading meaning into my post that isn't there. I'm asking (in good faith) if anyone is doing engine in belt changes now that the only known place that did them is shut, I'm not giving business advice.

Anyway, there were at least a quarter of a million reasons why that company went bust and I know there are people avoiding cars with too many of their stamps in the service book.

 

Sounds like an easier job to do with the engine out.

 

Sincere apologies. Came home drunk. Turned into a keyboard warrior. you know how it goes...

 

I just finished first engine out service on my 355. It was a lot of work, but it’s manageable.

I wouldn't dare try it with the engine in.

 

This has been beaten to death here.
The marks are assembly marks ONLY, used to get you in the ball park when you're assembling the engine. If you degree them properly you will find out that there is a difference. And I mean that in several ways.
2-3 degrees is a small visual difference ...

I always reply to this question with "This is a performance engine. Please treat it as such."

 

!

Ferrari went to great lengths to package this powerplant in a wonderful way where it could be maintained in a manner it is due, everything right in your face when removed.

I begs the question, Why? What is the motivating factor?

Cutting on cross memebers... Really?

 

I am a long term amature Porsche mechanic. Porsche was a master at design for the race track, similar to Ferrari. Both of these companies designed engines that were meant to be pulled to do major work. I pull my 911 engines out all the time, and I will do the same with my 355. If you need to do short cuts or the process makes you nervous, then just leave it to a professional. But for sure DO NOT MESS WITH FACTORY ENGINEERING.....cutting a crossmember is pure madness.

 

I have done several 355 belt service in car, cars that I have regularly serviced and had at least one engine out service, so no surprises. I have fabricated several special tools to help but in my opinion its to to hard on ones body and eyes and will not do one again.

 

I am doing my own belts,with the engine in,all i did was to cut the cross member for flywheel
to gain access to remove my timing belts, that's all folks

 

Photos please. Include VIN number for future reference.

 

????????????

 

I call BS unless you post a picture with a piece of paper with FerrariChat and the date written on it next to where you "cut into the frame".

 

Why bother doing it like that. Is it really that hard to do it correctly? I think not. And now you have a frame section cut out. Is be kisses if I found that on my car!

 

355Redcar....clearly you are kiddin right?

 

I agree, I too just finished my first engine out and I wouldn't service the car any other way. Like most short cuts in life the problems you might miss or run into might cause you to pull the motor anyway. I enjoyed learning about my car and by getting to look it over end to end I feel completely confident in the car. Take the motor out you will be glad you did and you will learn more IMHO