355 Radiator failure and upgrade - long post | FerrariChat

355 Radiator failure and upgrade - long post

Discussion in '348/355' started by BuickLeviathan, Mar 10, 2012.

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  1. BuickLeviathan

    Feb 20, 2008
    22
    ...hopefully this can help some of you out as the rads in your 355 near the end of their life.

    The 355 radiators use crimped end caps on their radiators. These like to fail after a decade or two rolls by...a design problem I have corrected on many, many vehicles.

    The attached doc goes over my story, the solution, as well as installation instructions:

    Symptoms:

    I noticed the occasional coolant smell on returning from trips. I also noticed coolant was a bit low (I check every couple rides). Eventually I found a tiny puddle of coolant (about the size of a quarter) after a run...but could not see any drips while the car was running.

    I carefully monitored the car on rides and kept a bottle of coolant in the trunk.
    About 3 weeks later while stopped for fuel I noticed a little drip while the engine was running. After sticking my head under the car’s driver side I noticed my baby was leaking from the radiator end cap.

    …thankfully it wasn’t a head gasket! I limped the car home checking my coolant levels every few km and refilling from my spare bottle.

    Prior to the leak my operating stats on average were:
    Engine Oil temp – 215.
    Water temp – 195, occasionally creeps up at idle to 220.
    Fan fuse blew once and she crept to 240.
    Engine oil pressure – follows with revs, 15 at hot idle.

    Background:

    First, a bit of background – why are the Radiators inevitably going to fail? Many radiator designs employ a radiator core with a plastic end-cap crimped onto the core..
    This saves manufacturing costs and allows designers and engineers to use standard cooling units (the cores) while keeping the radiator fit custom to their car.

    The failure occurs in the crimped tabs holding the plastic caps in place. In laymen terms, these are subject to “creep”…essentially the metal loses its crimping power over time with constant heating/cooling cycles. The crimps no longer hold on the plastic caps tightly and you get a leak under full pressure. You cannot simply re-crimp the metal…once it has fatigued it won’t have the same ability to hold onto the plastic.
    This was the finest technology 1994 had to offer and it is still in use today. It’s just not meant to last like a solid, one piece radiator.

    The Solution:

    …things have moved on since this car was designed. Aluminum cooling cores are significantly better than the old copper units of the mid 90’s. Having used these in several other high performance vehicles the biggest advantages I found is that they are:

    • Lighter
    • all aluminum (reducing corrosion issues due to galling)
    • superior in cooling capacity
    • all solid construction – no end caps to fail

    Quick product review:

    I ordered up a set of custom radiators from Saldana Racing products. They have a history of custom radiators and have built a few of these for the 355’s. They were pleasant to deal with, pushed to get my order taken ASAP.

    The cost for these custom pieces? About the same as the stock parts but they are significantly better pieces.

    The only bad parts are pretty minor.

    1. Saldana failed to wrap the parts properly and they were damaged in transport. They did rectify this with me fairly and right away.

    2.The radiators were missing 4 small threaded nuts (although they had cut out the hex mounting holes! The result is that I had to use a regular bolt and washer setup to secure the fans…annoying but not a big deal.

    3. There are no rad plugs in the drains…I had to go source some as the threads don’t match the original plastic plugs Ferrari provided…which disintegrated anyhow…

    4. The only real aggravation was that the AC cooler mounting brackets that come stock do not mount up properly on the new radiators which have a slightly larger end cap. I fixed this by bending mine to fit. This ended up costing me about an hour of head scratching then hammering on an anvil. They could include these in the kit with no worries.

    The removal/Install process:

    Ok – fair warning to those of you with a dealership-only slant and no offence to the expert Ferrari mechanics but…I do all my own work. Let’s just say I just don’t trust anyone but me to work on a machine I bet my life on. That said…don’t try this if you’re a newbie DIY mechanic!

    Step 0:

    Shut off the battery. Get the tools setup.

    Tools:

    • 7, 10, 12, 13, 14 mm sockets
    • 36mm wrench.
    • Rags, baggies for bolts, markers, tape.
    • Torque wrenches.
    • Work gloves.
    • Brain cells.

    Safety:

    ALWAYS use common sense and be overcautious when working on your car. Assume the car is always trying to murder you by falling on you, pinning vital bits, burning you, electrocuting you, slicing you open, poisoning you, or draining your bank account so that you starve in retirement.

    Always, and I mean ALWAYS use a torque wrench to secure your wheels.

    Step 1: NEVER trust the parts.

    1. I connected each new radiator up to a pressure tester and ran them up to 25 psi (overpressure). Re-tested at 15 psi. No leaks.
    2. Visually inspected each weld and the cooling fins, checked all flow points. No leaks.
    3. Good to go.

    Step 2: Removal of Driver side:

    1. Have AC system drained – use a professional.
    2. Un-torque the wheel lugs.
    3. Lift car at least 18” off the ground.
    4. Remove wheel and wheel well cover.
    5. Unbolt fan (4 10mm nuts), unclip fan lead, remove fan.
    6. Open up the fan casing (#34), then blow out the crud, inspect brushes, check clips, and re-test fan starting using low amperage (15A) current. Check gasket for cracks, breaks etc.
    7. Drain coolant into clear plastic jug, leave to sit and check for oil separation. I found some slight calcification in the coolant because someone put tap water in my cooling system…curse them to hell! You must NEVER use tap water in coolant on any car, distilled only.
    8. Unclip sensor lead (top of rad), unbolt rad retaining nut, undo air con lines (use proper line wrenches).
    9. Loosen all 4 rad hose clamps and rotate the rad hoses until they are no longer “stuck” to their pipes. Slide rad hoses off the radiator and all the way onto the main pipe.
    10. Lift rad from bottom until pins clear retaining holes, swing it towards the rear of the car. Work the rad out of the car a half inch at a time, The AC cooler will need to come out with it and may be stuck to the rubber from the intake.
    11. Trap fingers under rad. Swear profusely.
    12. Once out, undo the nuts holding the AC cooler Lift the cooler up and away from the radiator. Inspect the cooler for bent fins, breaks, cracks etc. Place cardboard over the fins to protect them and store this in a safe place.
    13. Remove the temp sensor from the rad.
    14. Take out any frustration on your now useless rad.

    Step 3: Removal of Passenger side:

    1. Un-torque the wheel lugs
    2. Lift car at least 18” off the ground.
    3. Remove wheel and wheel well cover.
    4. Unbolt fan (4 10mm nuts), unclip fan lead, remove fan.
    5. Open up fan casing, blow out the crud, inspect brushes, check clips, and re-test fan using low amperage (15A) current. Check gasket for cracks, breaks etc.
    6. Drain coolant into clear plastic jug, leave to sit and check for oil separation. I found some slight calcification in the coolant because someone put tap-water in my cooling system. You must NEVER use tap-water in coolant on any car, distilled only.
    7. Check that you have a 36mm wrench and an oil drain pan (I use a clear bottle so I can check the oil for brass and contaminants)
    8. Undo the lower oil line (#39 in the picture above) with a 36mm wrench, about 1L of oil will drain out from the cooler. I like to inspect the oil for metal filings etc. by running it thru a coffee filter but suit yourself.
    9. Undo the upper oil line (#38) with a 36mm wrench from both the cooler and the tank.
    10. Clean the line ends and the sealing surface on the cooler. They must be perfectly smooth to the touch.
    11. Undo and remove the 4 13mm bolts holding the cooler to the rad.
    12. The cooler is glued to the rad by 2 strips of foam on the left and right side of the rad and you do NOT want to tear this. Gingerly work the cooler loose from the foam and remove it from the car. If the foam tears you will need to buy new stuff. Inspect the cooler for bent fins, breaks, cracks etc. Place cardboard over the fins to protect them and store this in a safe place.
    13. Loosen all 4 rad hose clamps and rotate the rad hoses until they are no longer “stuck” to their pipes. Slide rad hoses off the radiator and all the way onto the main pipe.
    14. Unbolt the retaining nut at the top of the rad holding it in. Lift rad from bottom until pins clear retaining holes, swing it towards the rear of the car. Work the rad out of the car a half inch at a time. Never grip on the fins.
    15. Trap fingers under rad. Swear profusely.
    16. Take out any frustration on your now useless rad.

    Installation:

    Here’s where the fun begins. I suggest you do the passenger side first as it is much easier and will give you a feel for how things fit up etc.

    Step 1: Prep the parts
    1. Pressure test the parts if not already done.
    2. Blow air thru the radiators to ensure nothing was stuck or left behind.
    3. Place cardboard on the back side of the rad to ensure the fins are safe and do not get bent on install.
    4. Be sure to remove the cardboard before you complete the process!
    5. Spray-glue the foam sealer pads in place onto the rad.
    6. Pull out the rad hoses and check for cracks, ballooning, rot, or other problems. Replace them at the first sign of trouble.
    7. Install the temp sensor into the new rad (driver side)

    Step 2: Installation of Passenger side:

    1. Inspect the mounting location for leaves, or breaks in the intake. Clean them out and correct any problems.
    2. Reinstall rad hoses onto the pipes on the car, slide them all the way on. Loosen the rad hose clamps and slide them on past the hoses.
    3. Test fit the oil cooler onto the passenger rad, bolt up all sections. Notice that he upper bolts have nuts on the back side which will not be accessible after you install the rad. These nuts will need to be held in place by tape so that you can mate up to them afterwards. I use a good strong duct tape.
    4. Insert the rad, top first, into the engine bay. Never grip or push on the fins.
    5. Shift the black coolant pipe out of the way and then walk the rad into place until the lower pins pop into their holes. Now fit the rad tab onto the mounting stud (don’t put the nut on yet). Check that rubber sealing ring on the intake in contacting the rad neatly with no gaps.
    6. Remove any rad side plastic plugs. Wiggle the rad (never touching the fins) until you can line up the rad neck with the rad hoses then slide the hoses onto the rad neck. Pop the hose clamps over and tighten up…NEVER exceed 50 lbs.-in torque on a hose clamp!
    7. Install the rad top retaining nut and torque to spec.
    8. Make sure the foam for the oil cooler is prepped and ready. Remove any protective cardboard.
    9. Fit the oil cooler up against the rad then pop in the lower bolts but be extra careful not to cross thread. Reach a hand around back to steady the nuts you taped on (tiny hands = good thing!) then fit in the top bolts. Tighten up to proper torque spec.
    10. Remove any tape or cardboard “helpers”.
    11. Carefully clean the threads on your oil lines and double check the cleanliness of the sealing faces. Re-install oil lines and torque to spec.
    12. Install fan. Check that fan gasket is fit on neatly. Always torque to spec for the 4 nuts

    Step 3: Installation of Driver side:

    1. Test fit the mounting brackets for the AC cooler into the rad. Note that they don’t fit right and the little s-bends need to be moved closer to the stud. Break out your vice, anvil, and hammer and modify these to fit. These are non-critical vibration pieces so there is little risk due to crack but check the metal after you bend it anyhow! I added a washer to make they fit a little cleaner.
    2. Triple check that the AC lines are not contacting the rad.
    3. When the AC lines are clear and the cooler unit is secured to the rad then tighten the 4 mounting nuts onto their studs (up to spec) and remove any protective cardboard.
    4. Reinstall rad hoses onto the pipes on the car, slide them all the way on. Loosen the rad hose clamps and slide them onto the pipes on the car side. Push them all the way on.
    5. Insert the rad/AC assembly into place. Never grip or push on the fins. Shift the black coolant pipe out of the way and then walk the rad into place until the lower pins pop into their holes. Now fit the rad tab onto the mounting stud (don’t put the nut on yet). This part will be really aggravating and may require a couple of attempts depending on how good you are in tight spaces. Check that the AC unit is deep into the intake and that the rubber sealing ring on the intake in contacting the rad neatly with no gaps.
    6. Remove any rad side plastic plugs. Wiggle the rad (never touching the fins) until you can line up the rad neck with the rad hoses then slide the hoses onto the rad neck. Pop the hose clamps over and tighten up…NEVER exceed 50 lbs.-in torque on a hose clamp!
    7. Install the rad top retaining nut and torque to spec.
    8. Connect up the AC lines.
    9. Install fan. Check that fan gasket is fit on neatly. Note that the fan will seal against the plates on either side of the rad. Torque to spec for the 4 nuts.
    10. Connect temperature sensor lead.

    Step 4: Close up the patient

    1. Check that rad plugs are in.

    2. Get proper coolant and distilled water. Total of 11L. Go with a 60/40 mix of coolant and distilled water. If you store your Ferrari in -20*C then go with 50/50.

    NEVER…EVER….use tap water…use only distilled water. If you absolutely must put tap water into your vehicle for any reason at all, please also pour battery acid into the radiator and hit it several times with a sledgehammer for maximum destructive effect.

    3. Carefully measure coolant mixture. You will want a 60% water, 40% coolant mixture for optimum cooling & freeze protection. Do not drop below 40%. Fill to capacity. The system is self-bleeding and should run nice and clean.

    4. Fire up and let the car idle for 10 minutes checking for leaks constantly. If you see a drop - shut down and start repairs.

    5. Bolt up the wheel well liners, the wheels, lower the car.

    6. …take the car for a run and watch the cooling system jog between 160 and 190 as the thermostat gets a workout!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. cavlino

    cavlino Formula 3

    Mar 6, 2002
    1,740
    Ottawa, Canada
    Full Name:
    Carm Scaffidi
    Very detailed and helpful, thank you for sharing.
     
  3. mseals

    mseals Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 9, 2007
    24,468
    Kuwait
    Full Name:
    Mike Seals
    Excellent post! Thanks!

    Mike
     
  4. cf355

    cf355 F1 Rookie

    Feb 28, 2005
    4,208
    Full Name:
    chris
    #4 cf355, Mar 10, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2012
    Since you have posted on another thread- thought I would post my response here as well.

    The crimped tabs on the plastic end caps on aluminum rads have been standard in the industry since about 1983......for all cars.

    My factory rads are now 17 years old.........which is pretty good for any rad on any car.
    No rad can last for ever.

    Go on ebay and you can buy small aluminum rads (similar in size to the 355) for less than a hundred bucks and large rads (ie corvette size) for a few hundred bucks.
    The rads on a 355 are as basic as they get.......why does Saldana charge 2 grand for rads?
    As others have said......its the dreaded Ferrari tax.
    I have a contact who builds rads for ultra heavy duty construction vehicles (bobcats ect) and for a custom built rad he will only charge a few hundred bucks.......

    Enjoy the new rads, hopefully they will last the test of time.
     
  5. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 28, 2003
    10,008
    Rocky Mountains
    Full Name:
    Bastuna
    Excellent. Do you know the weights of the stock rad and the one you replaced it with?
     
  6. Kaivball

    Kaivball Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2007
    35,997
    Kalifornia
    Considering how much you paid for the rads I find that they are not OEM replacements unacceptable.

    IMHO.

    Kai
     
  7. cf355

    cf355 F1 Rookie

    Feb 28, 2005
    4,208
    Full Name:
    chris
    #7 cf355, Mar 10, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2012
    I have a concern however with this comment.
    I don't know if you are in a hot or cold climate but this does not sound normal.

    When driving my car in the heavy heat of summer the temperature runs constant at 190 degrees (thermostat rating) except when stopped in heavy traffic.....then it might go to a little less than 200 degrees before the fans drop the tempertures back down to 190.

    In the sub zero winter , again the car runs at 190 degrees (thermostat rating)in city traffic , only the oil temperature may run a few degrees cooler when on the highway.

    So at full operting temperature, if your coolant guage is fluctuating constantly between 160 and 190 degrees/ something is not right.
     
  8. ~Joshua

    ~Joshua Karting

    Jan 1, 2010
    110
    Full Name:
    Check my profile
    I saved the thread for future use. Thanks for your time!
     
  9. RRRREDRVR

    RRRREDRVR Karting

    Jul 28, 2004
    135
    Aptos CA
    Full Name:
    M Kitchen
    Thanks for your write up. I only wish you had posted it a few days earlier as I just replaced my LH rad. Your info would have been helpful. As an automotive engineer myself, I understand the benefit and rationale of your custom made radiators, but as someone who also concours my Ferrari as well as driving on the track, this change would result in a serious point deduction for non-originality and would not be something I'd consider. But, to each their own. Again thanks for the contribution to the DIY following here. And if anyone's interested, here's a link to my DIY writeup on my LH rad replacement.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/48440692/F355%20LH%20Radiator%20Replacement.pdf

    MK
     
  10. cavlino

    cavlino Formula 3

    Mar 6, 2002
    1,740
    Ottawa, Canada
    Full Name:
    Carm Scaffidi
    Nice write up! Thanks :) I have added it to my 355 DIY Folder
     
  11. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,614
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    Nice thread. Thanks for sharing the info.
     
  12. treedee3d

    treedee3d F1 Rookie

    Apr 1, 2011
    3,726
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Fab
    How long did the work take from start to finish and is there a difference in time between the driver and passenger side?
     
  13. schererp

    schererp Rookie

    Jul 12, 2008
    17
    Hollister, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Scherer
    Thanks for a very good post. I know this thread is quite old, but I haven't found any new ones. I replaced my radiator with a new one from Italy via Scuderia Car Parts USA ($850) which was identical to the old one except that the upper tabs did not have slots to keep the nuts from rotating, so I used your method with duct tape. The lower tabs had slots for captive square nuts, which I remover from the old one. My only problem so far is getting the top inside 4" bolt in through the cooler & radiator, because the plastic coolant pipe blocks putting it in straight. Still scratching my head, and having a beer or three, so If anyone out there has any suggestions, I would much appreciate them.
     
  14. schererp

    schererp Rookie

    Jul 12, 2008
    17
    Hollister, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Scherer
    Fairly easy solution. I just unclamped the outboard water hose and slid it on to the pipe (using liquid soap & water) That gave me enough play in the pipe to get the top inside bolt in place
     
  15. Jeff Pintler

    Jeff Pintler Formula Junior

    Jul 20, 2005
    537
    Richland
    Full Name:
    Jeff Pintler
    OK guys, here is another source: Superformance.co.uk. I replaced my 348 rads and uprated models fit perfectly and they also offer for the 355.
    They have lots of other parts. Plus they have good prices on Hill Engineering stuff.
    FWIW

    Jeff

    89 348tb, 86 TR, 99 360 3pedal, 05 S-160 Bobcat Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  16. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2018
    5,728
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Eric
    It depends on evnironmdnt. These cars including the 360 run very hot. In NJ in the summer my car does what you say. However in spring when it is 50 degrees in the am the car runs 178 or so on the highway. When I hit stop lights it's a solid 190 as fans cycle on and off. Actually the manual is clear that this is normal regarding operating range as opposed to a single operating temp. 178-190 if I recall?

    Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     

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