Vintage section Fake/Replica/Recreation/Rebody discussion

James,

Are there no F-signs on the P4/5?
Are you forbidden to use them or your choice?

 

There are Ferrari badges, script, shields and badges on Ferrari P 4/5 by Pininfarina.

On P 4/5 Compitizione M I took them off as Ferrari has refused to even sell us spare parts.

Legally P 4/5 Competizione M remains a Ferrari and is road registered as a Ferrari.

In terms if the race authorities including the FIA (we're in a World Championship contest)
Scuderia Cameron Glickenhaus is the manufacturer.

 

Jim,

Thanks for the info.

 

What are you going to use on your fake Monza?

 

pardon?

 

Sorry, Mondial?

 

the complete package

 

what motor are you using?

 

Alfa 2 ltr 4-cyl

 

Keepin' it Glick w/that score!

 

I have just read the article in "Octane" about this car. I thought it was lovely. And i certainly agree with the comment in the article that we will see more 'interpretations' being developed by wealthy enthusiats who want a unique car which will be usable without worrying about damaging a priceless old car.

At least no old 250 GTEs were harmed in the making of this - although not sure where the engine came from.

 

Well obviously out of some old Ferrari that was trashed to make this car.

Again what is wrong with using as modern Ferrari v12?
Pete

 

Here's one that uses a 1981 Ferrari 400i: http://www.salon-auto.ch/en/en-images/zoom/sbarro-memory-3448-26745 . It's from Espera Sbarro and it's being shown at this year's Geneva Auto Show. It looks to me like the memories of the owners of three different Ferraris: a GTO, a California, and an LM.

 

A new term to me "reinterpretation" of a classic. A company in the US making 904's.

 

Similar mindset to those folks who look to clone their pets.

 

if you're talking about beck, he makes some fantastic cars, worth some respect

http://beck904.com/

 

Anybody knows where this 512M replica is ?

http://www.ferraris-online.com/pages/carintro.php?reqcardir=FE-512M-JDR01

 

agreed Chuck does a nice job. FYI he worked on the GT40 team back in the 60's

 

Note how his replicas use modern mechanicals. Well done Chuck.

Peete

 

I am talking about the term, nothing else. Fed up with all the replicas, reconstructions, tributes etc etc etc. There seems to be a new way to say replica every day.

 

Ok, how about some suggestions. What constitutes a [1] reproduction [2] replica [3]reconstruction [4] kit car [5] tribute [6] historicly correct reconstruction??? I hope that someday there will be accepted categories that will bring some order to the confusion.This however is going to take more than one person's input. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

Try this then;
I have listed some criteria that define different qualities of the ultimate.
Below is a dictionary definition that more or less defines what the term means.
Next the meaning this term best represent to us derived from the definitions by Ferrari Chat members, that I found (listed below in smaller print), plus the dictionary definition. No doubt everyone will agree but at least it is a start. I would appreciate any examples you could assign to certain groups.



Ferrari Classification Criteria. Original components model specific.
1) Made by Ferrari or one of its Contractors
2) Chassis
3) Engine
4) Body
5) Suspension
6) In period construction
7) Electrical System


dictionary definition “Original - Not derived, copied or translated from something else. An original creation from which copies can be made.”

Original – A Ferrari that is as ‘it last left the factory’. Fair wear and tear should be taken into account.
FCC 1,2,3,4,5,6,7

Original… genuine 100% Ferrari as built, in as new condition.
Original: Almost impossible to find, Anything that has been used and had one part replaced is no longer original. For example even if just the spark plugs have been changed the vehicle is now somewhat original which means what ?. See below. The only example for original, DSJ could come up with was the Trossi - Monaco. Greg Garrison's Daytona Spider would fit.

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dictionary definition “Genuine - Not fake or counterfeit, being or reflecting the essential or genuine character of something.”

Genuine – Authentic Ferrari but not original.
FCC 1, either 2&3, 2&4, 3&4, plus 5, 6,

Genuine: This is a much more practical description, although the vehicle concerned must have no gaps in its history, where it could have been faked, the key to this is that while parts have been replaced/ modified the core vehicle, for example the chassis, is still original. Something like 330P4 #0856 or GTO #4219 would fit.

Genuine 100% Ferrari, but not necessarily as new condition.

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dictionary definition “Authentic - Conforming to fact and therefore worthy of belief.”

Authentic – A Ferrari constructed of Ferrari parts but not specifically from the model that it now represents.
FCC 1, either 2&3, 2&4, 3&4, plus 5
Authentic: This is when THE ENITITY or the key sum of its parts have continued to exist in one form or another since it was built, best examples being a ROAD CAR that became a GRAND PRIX CAR and then was converted back, this car should always have its own chassis as fitted originally, and certainly no other pretenders to the thrown. The 166 Inter #014I would be a good fit here, maybe the Breadvan.

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dictionary definition “Rebody - Invest with or as with a body; give body to.”

Rebody – A Ferrari that other than the body is original or genuine.
FCC 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7

Rebody – original car that has been modified or rebodied
Rebodied…a genuine 100% Ferrari with either a replica or authentic replacement body.
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dictionary definition “Recreation - The act of creating again”

Recreation – A construction of components made to resemble a Ferrari.
FCC 1 and /or 2&4, 3&4 plus 5 or 7 not model specific.

recreation – original Ferrari chassis/motor/body recreated into something it originally wasn’t.
Special…a rebody or replica.
Reconstruction: A vehicle built from one single component, or components from various cars, with very little from one single entity, Jan's 156 GP car ?.
Special: A very english confection, with perhaps the Old Yeller being the closest American's have to it, these vehicles are never finished. Not really a Ferrari thing.
Facsimile: A vehicle that now exists where there previously wasnt one. This is a complete fake with little linking the vehicle to the original(s) except the look and maybe the feel. Your 330GT/ 250 GTO Replica would fit here.
Resurection: When the end is reached an old racing car was frequently dismantled and eventually some parts are still located in various places, but not the entire car. Eventually the car is rebuilt either as a new chassis with some original parts. These cars can never be seen as a genuine car. #5899 could be an example of this.

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dictionary definition “Replica - Copy that is not the original; something that has been copied”

Replica –
FCC 2, or 3, or, 4, or5, or 6, or 7 all not necessarily model specific.

Replica…a representation or facsimile constructed in the same manner and same materials as the original using the same methods.
replica – nothing real.
Replica: A vehicle that is built as an exact copy by its original builder, the only one I can think of is the 125 built by Ferrari some years back.

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dictionary definition “Fake - Something that is a counterfeit; not what it seems to be”

Fake – made to look like a Ferrari. The construction is comprised of no major Ferrari FCC and possibly no other minor Ferrari parts.
FCC none of 1, 2, 3, 4

Fake….a counterfeit with no Ferrari origin.
fake – nothing real about it and significant attempts to pass it off as real.

 

Oops, the underlines didn't come out in the above. Also the terms are all in the same size print. For example;
Original................
FCC ................

then smaller print for reference copied from previous messages.

 

Replica crushed

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=25411

 

Wow!
I was at Technico Classica Essen a few years back and those SL bodies were offered there on a large stand, more or less convincing Mercedes based but also laughable old VW based. And this while Daimler Benz always has a large stand there. I'm going to Essen again tomorrow, so probably no SL replicas this year!