Official Countach Value Thread

I had that poster on the right in my apartment while going to college.
It must have been 2' tall by 5'-6' long and showed various shots of the interior, engine, gauges and wheels.

I swore up and down that one day I would own a triple white Countach.
Well I was wrong as I got a red on black instead. LOL

I still wish I could find the poster though as mine is long gone. Vic

 

while not MY first choice, i have seen much worse done to these cars...
these kits don't seem to be added on earlier cars....? only 5000S and after.
This owner seems to enjoy his

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLgwQtfcZKo&feature=BFa&list=FLsTok3IxjGXSdU0TFp919XA&lf=mh_lolz[/ame]

 

OK, I have watched the CT Value thread from the beginning. I have chimed in as well as others. I am sure what is to follow may cause some pace makers to skip a beat, but I need to speak my mind...as I always do. I, as well as Joe, are not GOD. Yes, both are names that have 3 letters and both have "O" in the middle, but we are not the all said and done as my counterpart thinks. I do not see eye to eye with Joe for years, it is no secret. If we both turned GAY tomorrow there is no second thought in my mind that we would NOT DATE! With that said, I will agree that I have mutual respect for Joe, as I hope he does for me as a human being, does not mean I sweep the ground he walks on in front of him as he approaches. Sure, he has written a book, has factory record's, owned quite a few cars, knows past great people, sells cars, drives cars, takes great pics of cars, posts "Tibet's" of great items..but this does not mean he is the end all to all, NOR AM I. This is also not a personal attack against Mr Sackey, it is a view that has emerged over the years and countless posts that I have seen a common thread in and just wish to offer up a second opinion that I think I have earned in the car world.

A value of a item, be it a car, a painting, a coin or my favorite, a "Beautiful Women" is set by the seller..not the buyer. If the buyer does not think so, he/she moves on. This does NOT mean the item is priced in-correctly, it just means the item is NOT CORRECT for the buyer. Just look at the past Bank problems in the USA, why problems, because we "took as fact" what the "controllers" told us..and now we are paying for it, saying what where we thinking OR why where we listening??

I have noticed, as I am sure others have, a constant "comparison" by Joe of the Lamborghini to the Ferrari..WHY?? They are not the same car's, they are not the same buyers or sellers or owners...so why compare "fake Ferrari breast" to real genuine "Lamborghini's Style", they are not the same and never will be! SURE Ferrari is a great car for some one that wants the "Guts and Glory" of winning a race on a closed course..where Lambo owners run their own "race" against the tide on the street. The F car owner is a follower, the L car owner is a leader, making their own way from the trench's of WW2, starting with tractors and ending up with a machine that cant be matched on the "real gentleman's" road of everyday driving and style. We, the L owners, march to a drum beat of "Don't tell me I cant, because I will". The F car owners has no explanation for their owner ship, other then, "it won races". SO WHAT..I have seen many a man "win the race" at the start of the night in a bar, but the true finisher was the one that sat and waited, as his OWN person and finished the WHOLE night, not just the "high light" of Friday night. But to be fair, as I always say..."to each their own".

So for me, either 1 of 1, or 1 on many, I am tired of being cast down as the "Red headed step child". I would not compare the joy and pleasure I have with a one variant of a Countach, that lasted MULTIPLE years over a competior that has to produce MULTIPLE one off "race variants" in a single year to grab attention. I wear jeans almost every day of my life, so am I less just just because I don't find a different "flamboyant" outfit every few months in my years to "impress" some one other then me?

So, to Joe and other's I say. Love your F car, not a problem, but stop comparing my L car to prices achieved for your "F" car. I could care less, I know what I am, I know what my car is, I know what it does for me..it brings me joy and experience's that a car produced by a "only" win on race day can never do. I am an every day man/woman, I am not about "NA NA NA I beat you on the track"...come do a cross country 5K rally with me..let's count the "oooh's and ahhh's" at each stop and see what really moves the down to earth came up from the barely graduated High School person says. Let's take a count of HOW many Lambo poster's where on our walls back in the teenage years over the Ferrari cars....

I am not going to "hang my head" low and accept a comparison to a car that is not what I WANT. I am of a different breed, I go against the tide, I am m own person, not a lost "Soul" in a sea of Red at the next Concourso..I AM a LAMBORGHINI OWNER. I OWN a car of distinctint, a V12 that roars, a car that takes every ones breath away, a car that is NOT "worshipped" due it's I have more money then you, let it sit in my "viewing" room. I DRIVE my car, as it was meant and built for, not to be traded and looked upon as a "false God" to end all.

To finish my rant and rave, if you REALLY think your F car is worth 10 TIMES what my L car is...then great, represent it..but choose a barn to live in, don't keep slapping me in the face that I am of lesser value..I am NOT, I am Lamborghini AND you should be so lucky to have me. If not, no problem, move on and leave me alone. I am RARE and worthy of what I have become, an Iconic POWERFUL piece of machinery that put's everyone to shame. You want to be part of my "Barn", great, PAY FOR IT, cause I sure as hell AIN'T giving it away!

 

You have made some great points, but I should point out that almost without exception the people who buy Miuras & early Countachs that I sell are in fact Ferrari owners. The fact that Ferrari owners who had little interest in Lamborghinis 10 years ago have interest in them now is a compliment to Lamborghini. Or at least that's the way I see it

 

OR, if you flip the coin over...THEY have come to their senses and SEE a GOOD investment on the rising market of exceptional cars...and we need not just GIVE them away to allow them to laugh at us in 1-3 years when they trade out for Twice what they paid.

REMEMBER just a short while ago what some of the F cars sold for and of late of "Sky rocketed" in purchase and trading prices..?

 

Actually, that's exactly why some Ferrari collectors are buying classic Lamborghinis these days.

 

"and we need not just GIVE them away to allow them to laugh at us in 1-3 years when they trade out for Twice what they paid"

Roy, I don't think anyone is giving anything away when it comes to the recent sales of the Countach. The fact is, most of those sales are going overseas. In the most horrific economy since the great depression, over the last 4 years, countach values have seen a tremendous appreciation.

With having said that, I truly believe the current seller on ebay with the white countach is smoking crack. To tell you the truth, I actually find it insulting. I won't go over the particulars of the car because a few people here did a great job of exposing that but I will say that IMHO he is no where near fair market value.

I love my Ferrari but I am looking for a Countach because I always loved the style and design of the car, think values will increase substantially and grew up poor and always said, "One day, I will own that car". I have worked my ass off to afford to purchase one and appreciate everyone's help in trying to lend a hand in my purchase.

So, if anyone knows of a well sorted, low mileage, white Countach that is for sale, please pm me.

 

Very well stated, and your request is noted.

 

low or not low mileage it does not change much: on a 30 years old supercar almost everything has to be checked/changed/redone/serviced.

If you drive badly and without any care that car, you can destroy almost everything in a week or two, so the mileage is not so important.

It's more important how the car is, how has been serviced and, above all, how works: drive it, raise the car and inspect it... each problem you see is more or less 10-12 k (average price, as icludes the price of those you cannot see...).
And do not buy any car with more than one not OEM parts...

ciao

 

My point exactly..the L car's are of Value and getting more everyday. The F car is NOT the only "fine Exotic" car out there.

I also agree with you on the White CT on E-bay..which I said when I posted it a few day's ago as well. However not so much for the price, but the price for an in-correct example of a excellent Countach car.

 

Peter:

So true. I recall those days. You could buy an LP400 for $65k to $100k for a period of 20 years from the late 70s to the late 90s (save the artificial spike circa 1988 to 1991) for a simple reason: that was the market then. Supply & demand set the numbers in any market, always.

 

I am involved with many an "Enthusiast" and some truly passionate car guys. Some own both Ferrari's and Lamborghinis and do it out of passion vs investment. One thing I have noticed time and time again, is that when at an event primarily made up of Ferrari enthusiasts, I am always amazed at how the owners of the new Scuderia/599/430 cars, don't move a muscle, approach or even welcome the owners of some other cars.
I have seen on many occassions, a 308 GTB or 308GT4 enter the grounds and not one Ferrari owner with more contemporary stuff, even looks at the car.

This is not something I have ever seen among Lamborghini owners. Any time, any Lamborghini enters a lot, all Lambo owners seem excited. It just seems to be less about having the newest and greatest, and more about the passion of the Lambo history.

With that said, there are a few examples that have been highlighted in this forum that represent everything tacky about some Lambo owners.

Just my two sense.

 

I also want to thank Joe Sackey, Gary Bobileef and Roy for educating me on the Countach. Each, went out of their way and took the time to offer their insights and answer my questions. This forum, as always, has been a great source for information.

As some of you know, I almost pulled the trigger on that Countach in California until someone tipped me off to the bad respray on the hood and mirrors. It would have been found in a PPI but I thank my friend for giving me the heads up ahead of time. The car also needed paint work to fix a bad detailing job that took the paint down to the prime behind the drivers door. There was also a few other spots, 2-3 inches long, that went down to the tan undercoat. All of these things could have been sorted but when you start adding them up it wasn't worth it to me for the final price. I also couldn't logically understand why the car needed a new clutch 11 years ago when it only had about 400 miles on the odometer unless it was driven poorly. The car also had the US bumpers, original tires from 89, the AC didn't work and a bunch of other things that needed to be done. It didn't have the rear wing either. The person representing the car did not try to hide anything but you have to do your own due diligence. When I added up the numbers and added transport to the east coast it didn't make sense to me. I hope she went to a good home in Houston.

I am ready when the right deal comes along. Thanks again to all.

 

"driven poorly" doesn't mean beat on... it could be the case but doesn't have to be. Not everyone knows how to drive standard shift. As long as the current clutch is in great shape, i just wouldn't factor the old one into the equation. As far as cultures go... Fcar guys do seem to care much more about the latest and greatest while Lambo guys seems to like them all. I had a F355 guy hang out with me for an entire show because the "new" ferrari guys weren't talking to him... they were only interested in the 599 and gto and he was made to feel like a poor mans ferrari. I thought his car was beautiful so i guess he liked talking to me. If you ask me...it's the new cars that suck!

 

Peter, are you saying that if a car has a worn clutch you think it was beat on?

 

The clutch was the least of what I questioned. The bad paint work that had to be redone and overall cost to sort the rest of the list, on top of the asking price, made it a no deal situation for me. The car was listed for a long time. It did sell and I hope it went to a good home.

A clutch is a mechanical part. Though it is possible to have a situation as pete described, it more than likely was the result of poor driving. Not the biggest issue in the world.

Regarding the bad paint work............ color correction is expensive and even after all is said and done, would never tell me why the car was re-painted to begin with. Plus, now you have a situation where parts of the car were resprayed twice.

I am looking for an unmolested example.

Also, there seems to be a great divide between "Lambo guys" and "Ferrari Guys" here. I am first and foremost a car enthusiast. I love my Testarossa. Excellent pristine example. I want my Countach to be the same way. I do agree that in general there seems to be a difference between the new F owners and the owners of the old school models but I don't want to pigeon hole everyone into one group or another.

The model or make of a car doesn't make someone an *******, their attitude and disposition does.

 

Perfectly stated. You are on a roll

 

Careful now.... perhaps the generalizing & stereotyping is off the mark a little.

There are some Ferrari owners who like both vintage Ferraris & Lamborghinis (the ones who buy Miuras & Countachs off me!), some who like both vintage & contemporary, and some who like just the new cars. Ive got clients that fit all molds.

Back to Countach values - I'd say the vintage Ferrari guys who have slowly come around to the Lamborghini marque are in part responsible for increasing the demand in an LP400 that once sold for 80-100k as Peter points out, and those same cars are now 300-500k. Id say Lamborghini owners are doing nicely as far as values are concerned.

 

My personal opinion is that even single marque enthusiasts appreciate each others cars as most would be classified as 'petrol heads'. What is noticeable and again this is a terrible generalisation, is that the owners of the older cars are generally more hands on car guys and have bought cars that they truly loved/lusted after (Generally it seems the iconic cars of peoples teenage years).

However a true petrol head I think would view all exotic cars as special and interesting even if there is a preferance for a single marque.

 

I would tend to agree with you, more so that the ODO has been "rolled" back, or which was very very simple to do in the early cars..jus disconnect it from the rear of the guage. They were not protected and encased with break proff seals of later cars to stop this proceeedure..

HOWEVER, on the other hand I do know of a 89 car FIRST HAND that had only 300 miles on it from new, same first owner, that needed a clutch. it was most likely due to the fact that he NEVER drove the car other then in and out of his garage and in and out of ramped trailer to take it to shows for the first 15 years of its life..

SO it can happen..but either way would be a very easy to deterimen.

 

I remember an early blue Diablo that was an Alpine demonstrator. They trailered it and showed it at club meetings and races etc. I watched it when they loaded it back on to the trailer and were working the clutch combined with high revs.
Afterwards I was informed that car was low mileage, but on it's sixt clutch...Go figure...

 

Exactly. These marques have a bearing on one another and don't exist in a vacuum so its prudent to consider other makes in both pure appreciation, and values.

Since this is a values thread, I think its fair to say that when values for one marque appears to be 'toppy' and/or inconsistent with wide-ranging variations, potential buyers consider other marques where the market appears relatively stable and within a defined range. Simple economics.