Red Bull and its current status....

Yes it's easy to go from hero to zero in this sport.

And I would imagine it is very hard for the top guns to keep there emotions in check.

Still to early to rule out the Redbull domination coming back, but as I posted else where, the rule changes have appeared to have effected/hurt them more than other teams.

Will shall see.

 

I seem to recall the thread I started forseeing these events a MILE away.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=358734


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhMgmkYHlM8[/ame]

 

Yes, it just goes to show how effective that blown diffuser was along with those flexing front wings.

Qualifying and starting somewhere in the top 3 to 10 is the most dangerous place to be, getting pole and shooting off well that's the ideal ticket.

Vettel has to show his mental resolve now under pressure, and that's why I/we like watching.

Same happened to Hamilton last year IMO, along with his apparent external problems.

Vettel will be really gunning for a win now to put him back on track, that's all it takes.

 

Blow yer own trumpet John, why don't ya..

 

LOL. I just thought that clip was funny.


The entire Red Bull design paradigm was flipped on its ear with this year's design changes. Their fall was inevitable as it fundamentally changed the way Red Bull played the game. It's one of those 'duhh of course why didn't you know that' moments ya know.

Now they are extra angry because on race pace they are fairly close but they won't be able to out-qualify the Mercedes so it just makes things that much more difficult for them, yet easier for Mercedes once their tire issue is sorted.

 

Actually most people were saying they would dominate again . Frankly I am glad they are not.

Carry on.

 

I can think of one Schumacher/Mercedes hater who was telling everyone in the world Red Bull would destroy everyone this year and there was no possible way Ferrari could build a lump of a car. Yet this person could not explain technically how or why any of it were to be possible considering the massive changes made to the RB design platform. F1 is a sport of design and technology, a fan without some minor understanding of each might as well be playing cards blindfolded if they intend on predicting what's going to happen.

 

I don't think they are doing that poorly. Vettel would have had another good result if not for the rolling chicane Narain.

 

i too am a little disappointed in Vettel. Not words spoken by a true world champ. Well, guess his maturity is showing. He'll grow up.

 

after so much domination i'm loving seeing the red bull cars struggle, especially in qualifying. They really aren't that far off the pace though. It's not like last year where we knew who was going to win every race. At least with Mclaren either driving looks like they could win.

 

+1.
SV is virtually unbeatable when he has the best car. Otherwise, not so much.

 

This season also shows Seb needs a car which has the back end glued to the track. Very similar to Nico's driving style.

 

????????????????????????????

Geez man, almost anyone is unbeatable when they have the best car, the list of this evidence is a mile long, SV the last 2 years, Jensen Button 3 years ago, Damon Hill, Jack Villeneuve, MS at Bennetton, MS after the Ferrari was developed, heck, look at Piquet in the Brabham turbo, Nigel in the Williams, and so on.

 

That's my point. He only wins when he has the best car. Drivers like Alonso are able to drive around a bad car's faults for a good result.

 

I've been saying this for months, and very few people believed me.

Vettel didn't magically become a mature and heroic driver from November of 2010 to March of 2011. He got a car that was totally dominant.

Neither did Schumacher suddenly devolve from 2005 to 2006. He went from total domination to putting his heart into every drive and still losing.

Neither did Hamilton lose it last year and "can't win again until he gets his head straight".


These are fierce competitors who hate to lose. When they do lose, they get angry, and tend to blame everyone. Just like Schumi flipping out. Just like Alonso saying his own team sabotaged him when he got a loose wheel nut during a pit stop. Just like Vettel giving Webber the "you're crazy" hand signal after a crash. Just like Hamilton whining at the team for a flubbed strategy.



It's easy to be cool and calm when you're way out in front. When you're not - life's a b*tch.

 

Nope.

Watch Monza again where he beat the entire field in a POS Minardi.

Vettel is one of the top 3 drivers of today. He is insanely fast and has incredible car control. He can wrestle a backend car to the top as shown in Monza.

However - like so many young guys entering F1 - he lacks race craft when dealing with traffic: Time and again he has made bone headed moves like a crash with Webber (?) at the Japanese GP, plowing into Button (?) in Spa and now the incident with Karthekayan (granted Karthekayan was partly at fault, but Vettel should have known that this guy is unexperienced and given him much more room, particularly on such a wide track).

In a few years he'll have enough practice to become unbeatable, but right now he shows weakness when not running away from pole.

 

I have no idea how he'll develop in the future since I don't have crystal balls We're talking about today, and today he doesn't have what it takes to win consistently unless he has a dominant car. He's already a great driver (you have to be to get 2 WDCs, no matter what you're driving), no doubt, but no way he could have done what Alonso did last Sunday.

 

I still disagree: He doesn't win unless it is from the front.

Not sure about that. Alonso's win was down to luck, perfect pit strategy and insane car control. Vettel has that kind of car control, so he might have been able to pull it off.

But I'm not sure. Alonso is simply the best, so I might be not giving him enough credit.

At any rate both (Alonso and Vettel) are two of my all time favorite drivers. One day one will succeed the other at the Scuderia and that's really all I hope to see.

PS: I also doubt that Vettel has the car development abilities Alonso has. So whatever Alonso tells the engineers to get that turd going, it must be priceless. OTOH I'm not sure Vettel can tell his engineers much to develop RB8.

 

I remember that race very well, because I was at it.

And I remember it was raining.

And as we know, when the rain hits, weird things can happen.

Like Kimi winning in a POS Ferrari, or Vettel winning in a STR (not Minardi), or Fisichella winning in a Jordan.

 

Not weird things are happening, but unexpected things because rain is the great equalizer of performance. That's why the best drivers can win in a POS.

I know that Vettel was in a STR but it used to be a Minardi until recently, hence the reference.

As for the Fisichella victory: That truly was a roll of the dice: The flooded track at Interlagos left it to Lady Luck who would cross the finish line first with the pointy end going forward. Could have been anybody and it was Kimi at first and only later it was "discovered" that in the chaos it was Fisico who won it.
Not really a good comparison to the other two examples, but I figure you made that deliberately to "prove" your point about weird.

 

Agree completely. In Fisichella's case, all the serious contenders crashed out. He was one of the last few standing. This wasn't the case with Vettel's win, he won that one on sheer pace in poor conditions. Also, Kimi's lone win in the POS F60 was in the dry at Spa.

As you said, Alonso is the best right now, but Vettel is near the top, he just needs a few more years to mature a bit and fine tune his driving. This will coincide perfectly with a move to a red car.