new enzo vs 918 marketing strategies

Ferrari have not tested their heavyweight there, namely the FXX Evoluzione. Honestly though, the Ring is a marketing balloon. That track is largely irrelevant as it is much more down to conditions and drivers, rather than the car's true capabilities. An F1 car won't be able to demonstrate its best there, and the same stands true for most hypercars due to the undulations and bad tarmac. A modern Grand Prix track is a much better yardstick.

 

Yawn.

Ferrari haven't run the FXX there because they know it wouldn't come close to the Pagani.

Road cars run on the road not on GP tracks and the Ring is the Ultimate Road course in the World as Porsche, MB, Audi, Jaguar, McLaren, Pagani, Toyota, Lotus, VW, BMW, Nissan, Renault, Puguot, and many, many others understand.

 

Now this is what is called unfounded belief. The FXX has 150 more HP than that Pagani to begin with!

As for roads, there is the Autostrada, there is the Stelvio Pass and then there is a cobbled road. Which one should one choose and why? Different cars have different strenghts. Track cars such as the FXX et. al excel at smooth tracks and roads. That is their raison d' etre; not the Rubicon trail!

 

Dream on. The Ring is the one that car companies want to do well at and post their Ring times and car guys measure relative performance at. Denying that truth is silly. The roads you mention are meanless as there is no way to do a comparable timed run on them unlike The Ring. The FXX hasn't set a record anywhere or ever won a real race. When the new Enzo comes out the Bull**** will stop and we'll see how it does at the Ring and whether or not it can last longer than one lap before it's suspension overheats like the original Enzo did.

Once again I look forward to racing any Ferrari's that show up for the 24 hours. When the flag drops the bull**** stops.

Pagani holds the record and I challange Ferrari to try to beat it.

 

I'm sure any of their F1 cars would beat it... unless the Pagani is a street car.

The FXX was designed to collect data. It wasn't designed to be fast on the Ring.

And, knowing those Italians, they have no interest in being the fastest on the Ring. Their clients have other needs.

 

?

http://www.autogespot.com/nl/nog-een-pagani-zonda-760-rs

 

Nope. Their F1 cars couldn't lap the Ring we're talking about faster than a Pagani if at all.

The FXX was designed to separate clients from their money. Do you seriously think the data gathered from gentleman drivers means anything?

Ferrari used to care about being first overall at major sports car races it's true that they no longer do.

As for gathering data Pirelli uses Pagani at the Ring to develop the P Zeros not Ferrari.

 

Yes I was at Pagani on Monday and saw that one. They're also building a new record car and believe it will lap The Ring at 6:37.

The quality of their engineering and build is absolutely world class beyond any other production car and most one off's. IMO beyond Veryon and that one is pretty trick.

Hope U R well.

 

BMW lapped with an F1 car supposedly in the 5:45 area "untimed" If the BMW could complete a lap, then so could Ferrari... but that is the extent I'll get into this conversation. It is pretty much useless IMO

Oh, and the MFR's tell me that 1 mile on the Northloop is like 20 miles on the road.

 

This doesn't sound like you at all Mr G. I wonder about the irritable demeanour today. Anyway.

The FXX has a power to weight ratio that blows the Zonda R far far away, whilst their aerodynamics and chassis are on par. They are basically souped up Enzo and Zonda F respectively. The fact that Ferrari never before (till that stupid 599XX stunt) even cared about where that Nazi track was, should indicate to you and I that they have no intention of playing the game of the Germans. If you want real sportscar racing you go to Le Mans after all!

As for an F1 car not being able to lap the Ring that much faster, I cannot even believe you just wrote that, so let's not even discuss it.

As for the next Enzo, it won't ever go officially to the Ring. Ferrari will post the Fiorano lap time and be sure that it will just destroy some acceleration and production car lap records if and when the car is ever independently tested.

Regards

 

Nope.

Nordschleife incl. shortened GP track, 24.433 km (as used for the VLN long distance championship):
8:34 --- 171.126 km/h -- BMW Sauber F1.07, Nick Heidfeld, apr,28 07, demo lap www.life4speed.net/news-177.html


P 4/5 C has run that same track configuration in 8:23 with ballast and air restriction. Nick's 8:34 is about a 7:04 apples to apples with Pagani's 6:45.

The MFR's are right about that and that's why so many of them test there.

Hope U R well.

 

and le mans has been won by the germans ten out of the last 12 times!

 

I'm confused.

You're saying that the VLN,ADAC, and WEGA are "nazis" and or The Ring is a "nazi" track?

If Ferrari never cared about the Ring why did they race their factory cars there?

Exactly what part of the following are you unable to understand?

Nordschleife incl. shortened GP track, 24.433 km (as used for the VLN long distance championship):
8:34 --- 171.126 km/h -- BMW Sauber F1.07, Nick Heidfeld, apr,28 07, demo lap www.life4speed.net/news-177.html

Perhaps the fastest F1 time on the Nordschleife will help. Nicki's 6:58

Modern F1 cars and their ride height would be a joke at the Ring but as they're not designed to race there who care's?

If the factory doesn't care about Ring times why did the Factory take their 599X there and do so much publicity about the time they achieved?

Getting back to the question of the op.

Because for the time being Ferrari doesn't feel it needs to do much to sell 400 new Enzo's at 1.3 mm e or finish First OA at Le Mans and other MFG's believe that marketing and sports car racing is important to their customers and their ability to sell cars.

 

Tru dat.

Ferrari hasn't finished 1 OA at Le Mans since 1965.

 

I was referring to a track built by the Nazi government.

You do understand of course that the lap time you quoted was on demonstration tyres and with frequent slow downs for filming purposes, don't you? It was not a flying lap! It was a filming lap!

As for Ferrari, they may race there when the relevant championships visit the track but they have no interest whatsoever other than that, with the notable exception of the 599XX which was a stupid marketing exercise. Other than that, when did Ferrari quote a Ring time?

Do you want to see which car is really faster? Get the rivaling cars to Monza, Hockenheim, Silverstone etc, on the same day, with the same professional driver behind the wheels and clock the best possible lap time on same spec tyres! Simple and scientific!

 

Perhaps because they withdrew from top level competition at the end of 1972, winning the championship before leaving. Hard to win a race and a series you are not entering, don't you think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_World_Sportscar_Championship_season

 

Stating things as fact that aren't true doesn't magically make them true. It didn't work for Goebbels and it's not working for you.

"I was referring to a track built by the Nazi government."

The Nurburgring race track was made in the 1920 ies (The GP course in 1984). That is pure fact.

The Nazi party wasn't started until 1933.


"Nazi Germany, also called the Third Reich, was the name for Germany from 1933 to 1945."

 

Even though, it is besides the point, the Nazi party was formed in 1920 and took power in 1933. The Ring was buit in 1927 so you are technically right about that one. It was built under the presidency of von Hindemburg.

 

Man up and race Ferrari.

 

I guess I don't understand this somewhat recent obsession with Nurburgring lap times. It isn't like any other track or even most roads, so isn't much of an indication of how fast a car would be elsewhere. The fastest car around the ring wouldn't necessarily be faster on any other track or road, it's just the fastest car on the ring. If you want the fastest car on 'roads', why not look at tarmac rallies or hill climbs that are actually run on roads? If you're after the fastest track times, why is the measuring stick a one-off track that doesn't resemble most others. I think Suzuka would be a better measuring stick for track performance...

Besides that, the ring is so driver dependent unless the same driver is taking the cars out you wont know how much is related to the car or the driver...On your drivers at the last 24 race, what was the spread in fastest lap times between them?

 

The fact remains that your statement that The Ring is:

"a track built by the Nazi government." is not true.

Stating that The Ring was "built by the Nazi government" when it wasn't speaks for itself.

 

I am pretty certain that I owned up to that mistake. My memory served me badly as I was under the impression that it was built in the '30s. I apologise for that if it has offended you.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing some track footage of the Zonda 760 RS. I just came across this article today.

http://www.gtspirit.com/2012/04/05/extreme-pagani-zonda-760-rs-caught-on-camera/

 

Have you ever been to, and driven the ring? Why do you think that most of the worlds most respect automotive engineering companies (and not just the German ones) have permanent development facilities there? For fun? Because its not representative of true performance? I don't get the fanatical desire to try and position the ring as irrelevant and times as meaningless. There is only one reason why some manufacturers (not just Ferrari) stay away- fear of failure.

 

During our last race there was no significant difference between our different drivers lap times. The differences were weather related. The reason the Ring is used by so many car and tire manufactures is that it's the place they feel is best to test and develop their cars and tires. If there was a better place the manufactures would use it. Take Maserati for example. They could use Bolocco for much less than The Ring but they don't.