+1.
Herman do you own a 458? I can appreciate your enthusiasm and your posts, however, from what I have read it seems you are all over the place regarding the original question 458 or scud? greyhair
No I do not own a 458. But I have been on track with one, and been in the Scud. I think the 458 will be the best choice for the OP because he already has the 911 GT3. If he was to choose a more trackday focused "sunday drive" car I believe he should take a closer look at the Scud. The 458 is a lot more digital than the Scud, that's what I mean when I say the Scud has a soul. Did you read my first reply too? It seems as if you've only quoted me from my later posts.
I find it interesting that the real "rah-rah" people for cars like the Scud and Challenge Stradale are here on Fchat. And, perhaps that makes sense because to want one of these extreme cars, you have to know what it is and be passionate about the reasons you drive. You also have to be willing to put up with it too. But, in the real world, the 458 outsells the Scud 10 to one. The proof is that the value of a Scud has fallen sharply while the value of 458's remains stable. In the real world, the 458 wins by a vast majority.
Yes the 458 out sells the Scuderia but perhaps there are more 458's than scuds? or if not now there eventualy will be more 458's simply becuase of mass production. Yes the scud has fallen sharply. Give it some time then the 458 will fall as well. I love my scud for what it is, it makes no excuses. However, I also think the 458 is best suited for a daily driver and with the software upgrade ( I did not test drive one that had that), could very well be the best of both worlds. Bob at least you pick a side and do not stand in the middle of the fence like some other posters on this thread. To say the 458 wins by a vast majority------------not sure about that, it depends on what you want in the vehicle and how you base the "win" factor. Both of these cars have "wins" in their corners I would say. To me the Scuderia Wins this hands down. greyhair
I think the expression is an "Armchair Quarterback". Mountains of advice on 2 cars - neither of which he has owned. I'd like to see what some actual owners have to say.
Or perhaps a lot of people dumped their Scuds because they just didn't want to put up with the rough ride, lack of creature comfort, and loud noise? I'm not knocking the Scud. But, it's not for everyone. I know one long time owner who had one 2 weeks and turned it back in complaining of too much back pain and his passengers not enjoying the ride. It's just a fact that these are for a limited audience or this would be all Ferrari would make. The limited audience my love it (and that's fine) but it's still limited.
This is a near useless argument/comparison. The two cars are not in the same category. It's like comparing a 997 GT3/RS to a new 991 Carrera S. The 991 is a better car in many ways, and I'm sure it's a much better choice for most drivers. Yet, the more serious Porsche enthusiast would likely want the 997 GT3, the more focused, motorsport inspired car. It has a feel and a spirit (especially an RS model) that a Carrera just can't match, and that's by design. There are certain things the Scuderia does better than the 458, and vice-versa. That's just the way it is. Just because more people buy a certain car/model doesn't mean it's the better car for everyone. Thankfully, we have choices in life. Considering the OP's current stable and comment about the 458's beauty, I would suggest the 458.
Rough ride,lack of creature comforts and loud noise, limited audience is exactly why I love the Scuderia. The old man that had the scud for two weeks must of been older than me. And futhermore, I bought my scud for me, not my passenger.
I own a scud and love it. To the OP it all depends on how often you plan to drive the car. Plus since you have a GT3 you might want a more comfy kind of ride than the raw experience that the Scud will provide. I am new here, and new to owning a ferrari (the Scud is my first). I quickly noticed there is 2 kinds of ferrari customers. The first is the type that loves the performance aspect of a ferrari and lusts and cant wait for when the next raw version is released. This group doesnt care about the rough bumpy ride, doesnt care about not having carpets and sound dampening this group just cant wait for the valves to open up and hear that scream that comes out of the exhaust pipes. I find I fit in this group. The second group is the one who loves everything ferrari and loves the hyper feel it provides and wants a comfy ride yet knowing that there is a ton of power at the tips of their tows. Those love the daily driveability of most modern ferraris especially the California and the 458. So having a GT3 could push you both ways. You are a raw freak who wants the extreme in that case go for the Scud. Even if the 458 had a thousand HP, its the complete package that the scud offers that gives you that raw experience and frankly the 458 lacks in that department. Yes it is modern, yes it does look stuning but unfortunately it is just too tame. If you feel that the GT3 is enough for you and just want the ferrari for that fun drive out or to dinner then go for the 458. The best way to decide is try to drive both.
I might not be as fortunate as many of you who can afford the ownership of a Ferrari. I'm not complaining, I think it's great that you realize your dreams. I would never use any of the "great to be the 1%" against any owner. I admire you all. But not even being 20, the lack of ownership doenn't really bother me, as I'm sure my time will come. Even though I might not be an owner, I still believed I'm entitled to my say and opinion. I've experienced both cars in person on and off track. So I'm as much an 'amchair quarterback' as you'd like, huh? Put it another way, does every Ferrari salesperson own a Ferrari? I'm pretty sure not, but still, who sells you the car? Believing that anyone who isn't an owner doesen't know sh** about Ferrari is quite an arrogant and ignorant state of mind, IMHO. Of course, I am in no way denying that an actual owner will know better. But to laugh at others opinions purely because they are not in your shoes isn't really constructive either.
As a non-owner, my recommendation would be that you go with a 458. You already have a GT3, so a Scud would be a little redundant. The 458 has all the latest technology and is very easy to live with by all accounts.
There is a significant price difference. The title should be "430 Scuderia and 360 Spider Manual or 458 Italia?" The Scuderia is a great track day car, weekend car, good at autocross (surprisingly), good at drag racing (surprisingly too). It's around 400 lbs lighter than a 458 Italia, and such weight difference is very noticeable. The suspension in the Scuderia is vastly superior than the one in the 458 Italia. The Scuderia come with Titanium springs and Sachs (German) shocks. The Italia comes with cheap Beijing Industries Chinese shocks, heavier (extra unsprung weight) not eve threaded, and steel springs (heavier too). The 458 loses the double wishbone rear suspension due to the bulk caused by the heavier and bigger transmission. The 458 Italia cooks the brakes at a track day, so it isn't meant to be driven at a racetrack. For street driving, the 458 Italia makes more sense, but it brings the question on what's the purpose of driving such car at 55 mph on public highways when the same can be done with a Kia Rio. As a daily driver, there are better cars than a 458, such as AMG E class, Nissan GTR, BMW M, all of them with more amenities than a 458. For spirited street driving, the 599 GTB HGTE is a better car than the 458. For track day driving the Stradale and Scuderia are more fun. For Racing, any last 3 generations Challenge cars should do. The GT3 RS Mk1 is slow, quiet and boring compared to a Scuderia. I had a 997.1 GT3 RS, soft car, quiet, slow and less feedback compared to a Scuderia, performance is ages apart between the RS and the Scuderia. The original CLK BS (not the incoming crappy one) is a great daily driver, lots of torque, great sound, it needs rear seats. The new 4.0 GT3 RS is a great car, super fast, but it doesn't make the sounds of a V8 at high RPM.
I certainly understand the lastest greatest thing. The 458 is it in spades. I own a 16M and can't part with it. I have other cars as well and like them. I may buy a 458 at some time but right now I'm very happy. I do enjoy the raw nature of the 16M and for me it feels right. Yes it is noisy, bouncy, raw and that is what I want.
this: Drove 458 in Italy...and the Scuderia. Scuderia is a far more connected and personal experience vs the 458. 458s will be a vastly more common site over time vs. the Scud. Simply put, the 458 is Ferraris Camry in terms of mass production. I am going to get a Cali to keep the Scud company which is the perfect F combo.
My wife loves the Scud just like she felt about my CS - better then my 360 or 430 - she likes the way the seat hold you in and kind of wrap around you - we live most of our time in the mountains and i drive fairly agressively - it puts her to sleep - she also tracks her and my daughters car so the rawness is just part of the game - a good part Image Unavailable, Please Login
Great evaluation. I just have a simple question "have you driven a 458 much?". It's a beast that sits refined until you want the power and honestly, driving a 458 at 55 mph doesn't happen often or for long. Just my humble 2 cents after driving my 2012 458 for 1,000 miles.
2 of them already, have done work in one of them (brakes twice, and suspension check), have been on a racetrack (road course not a drag way) with them driven by experienced track drivers and a club racer. Lap times between my Scuderia and well driven 458 are not remotely close. The 458 is a fine car for what it is, a good street car. It is too isolated for my taste, too heavy (almost 3,700 lbs with driver and a full tank of fuel), soft sprung, the engine sound is muted a little too much, and 20" wheels don't offer good choices for tires. I'm more impressed with the 599 GTB HGTE, I instructed this past weekend in one, and it was delightful, great mechanical sounds, and a sensetional suspension.
