How should recreations (rebodies) be handled in Vintage?

That since the rebody - fakey do - tonga screw threads have been active all other conversations on FerrariChat Vintage Section have pretty much ground to a halt. Can I make a suggestion that those conversations be moved out of the Vintage Section entirely? To some extent it's rubbing everyone's noses repeatedly in an unfortunate side of our hobby and it isn't really what the point of the Vintage Section is.

 

I second the motion.

Regards,

Art S.

 

Excellent idea... bring it to the Ferrari Discussion (not model specific) section.

 

I'm of a different mind.......make it a sticky at the top; you can go there or ignore it. Your choice. Very simple solution, and only offends the hardliners, of which there are too many, on both sides!

 

+1...just one man's opinion

 

I've noticed, as well. I think people are going to drift elsewhere.....

George

 

That thread was mismanaged from the beginning, in my opinion. First, the thread title should not have been changed. Second, I think at some point, after everybody had had his say, the thread should have been closed or at least moved to a different forum. The discussion there is now all over the map.

The irony is that a thread about (insert your favorite word for replicas here) is dominating a forum supposedly dedicated to authentic Ferraris....and arguably the most important Ferrais ever built.

 

You may not understand this but I also actually second this motion. I believe considering the interest in the subject both pro and con that I would benefit all concerned if Replicas and Reproductions had there own format,chat room,rules,doccumentation etc. As a suggestion I think in order for any headway to be made it may be up to those professionally involved with the creation and or presertvation of these cars to foster the creation of a system and or organization to fill the need. Clubs such as the FCA the VSCCA and other specific car clubs may want to get involved. It may also be beneficial to involve more than just Ferrari. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

I just want to say that I consider myself a hardliner on both sides of this issue. That is probably true considering the amount of discussion that has developed. I find great interest in the history and preservation of the originals. Just go back to my early days in 2006 injecting a neophytes interest in the endless discussions of the first ten cars built by Ferrari after the War. This then expanded to many of the cars up to the mid 1960s which now consume much of every day. Replicas and Reproductions is an intergral part of this which I have come to believe needs a format of its own. And so for better or worse I do what I do which I hope in the long run is found beneficial. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

Sorry for the typo on the second line. It should read ".....both pro and con that it[not I] would...." tongascrew

 

+1

 

I just wish Rob would ban any discussion on replicas from this great site ... but this would not stop the destruction of historic Ferraris.

In the end it IS the biggest issue concerning the preservation of these historic cars, so it is right that it has the lions share of posts surrounding the debate.
Pete

 

The thing is, the underpinnings of these cars are still vintage and the basis of the re-bodies are based on vintage designs, it's not as if owners are taking a 250 GTE and making it look like a 599, so why should it not remain in the vintage section?

What gets Me when I read all the complaints about the replica/recreation threads is that no one forces you to read them!
You already know you're not going to like what you see/read, so the simplest solution is to avoid reading the threads completely.

No matter how much you moan and whinge about what other owners do to their cars, you are not going to stop it happening.

A owner of a genuine GTO has a brainwave and decides to chop the roof off? - complain all you like, chances are he'll still do it.

Some wealthy owner decides he'd rather like his 250 GTE to look like a 250 GTO? All the finger wagging and slating in the world is most likely not going to change his mind.

If you really want to save all the 250 GTE's and it's ilk from ever being at risk from being made into a replica/recreation, you only solution is to buy them all yourselves and protect them!

You can post: "It's not right!, it's a disgrace!, it's a travesty!, I hate it!" etc., etc., all you like for the next Million years, it wont change a thing!

You either need to buy up every car available to save them or get a Law introduced to make it illegal to change the bodies on them.

Other than that, all the whinging in the world is going to be about as effective as King Canute trying to stop the tide coming in!

 

The point is that it doesn't matter if this section changes anything. What matters is that car's that are not what they look to be are properly identified and disclosed so that the average person at major events won't think he's seeig an real TDF, a real 250 Testarossa, or a real 275 GTB NART when they go to the MM, Goodwood, or Cavallino.

Discussing kit cars with Ferrari script on them clearly belongs somewhere else. I do think the number of threads on replica's is cluttering up Vintage and chasing many who normally come here away and I understand Julio and other's frustration.

 

As Bryanp mentioned...."The ONLY reason a fake should show up on F-chat Vintage is to determine which real Ferrari was butchered, and whether it is being presented/advertised as the real deal."

It would be nice for a thread to simply cross reference what model chasis/serial number has been used on a recreation...and nothing else.

 

That to me is the most important thing!

 

Congratulaions Jim! This is exactly what I am promoting. Whether the "average person" is at a major event,looking at pictures, reading an article,researching a car or looking to buy or sell, there sould be a format available where detailed reliable information is available.I also agree that Ferrari "reproductions" with "fake" Ferrari script belong elsewhere. There are hundreds of "reproductions" out there of which few are Kit cars. It's going to take real constructive input and suport from the establishment for there to some day be an "elsewhere". just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

I totaly agree!!!. The sooner we get started the better. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

Well I think it is saving the few remaining original cars.

There are few if any Alfa Romeo saloons left from the 30's, but we know better now, why not do something to encourage the saving of these cars?

And I cannot afford to buy them, unfortunately.
Pete

 

I totally disagree; if the vintage Ferrari enthusiast community sends a strong and consistent message that destroying one of the dwindling number of real vintage Ferraris to replicate another will earn that person scorn and not adoration, and we manage to dissuade even one person from going that route, I would consider that a (small) victory.

I don't understand the argument I keep seeing here that says that there is some obligation to buy "all" the GTEs, and not voice an objection to the butchery of them into fakes. If I object to slavery, I have to buy all the slaves and free them? I can't protest slavery by voicing my opinion? Bizarre reasoning. By the way, I did make the economically unwise decision to buy and restore a Ferrari 2+2; and I don't regret it. It may be "crazy," but it's also called "passion."

 

Despite the undoubtably good intentions, don't we all think this is getting a little tiresome? Whilst, I personally wouldn't buy a 250 GTO rep based off a GTE chassis, I recognise that there are people out there who would (indeed I might've done a few years back - although back then for me it was a DB4GT Zagato built off of a standard DB4 chassis, and at best financially that would have been a mistake)
The truth is that it is all about the choice of the guy with the cash in his or her hands and I doubt whether the pages and pages 'advice' herewith will ever really make an impact on those buyers.
I honestly believe that nothing new is being promoted in this debate.

 

Well said. Apparently just one thread devoted to the debate isn't enough for some.

 

I greatly respect your efforts and passion. I wish there were more of you. I am sure there are many 250GTEs that will be restored and saved.Unfortunately many will not. Without jumping to conclusions, restoring a GTE that is in reasonably good condition is a noble and rewarding thing for someone like yourself. You should be respected by all. But what happens to the cars that don't find someone like you or are beyond resonable expectations of restoration. If someone's budget is not up to an original but would still love a replica and is prepared to finance it, why not use an available GTE or similar chassis that would otherwise be scrapped.. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

Who scrappes a GTE today ??? The last one sold at Techno Classica these days (Ferrari certified) was about 195.000,- EUR (same price as a not perfect daytona). The last one unrestored was 125.000,- EUR. Before You bring them to the scrapyard, I will take them....

 

I think this will continue. There are at least 5 Fake GTO's on GTE bodies that have been looking for buyers for years. Restored GTE's are heading up. Fake GTO's are heading down and aren't worth what it takes to make one.