This is a great site. Many thanks to everyone for all of the informative posts. By way of introduction, I moved to Southern California about 18 months ago. Its always been a dream of mine to own a Ferrari and to live in an area where you can drive a convertible nearly year round. This site has been a great resource to learn more about the various models and the factors that should be considered when purchasing one. After doing a little research, I think that the best model for me would be an F430 Spider. I recently found an F430 at a local dealer that has nearly everything that I have been looking for (with the possible exception of CCBs). Its a 2007 with about 3,000 miles. The dealer represented that the car had two prior owners, had been purchased at his dealership and had been serviced with him every time except once. The dealer is asking $170K for the car. The mileage seemed a little low to me (though Ive seen mixed commentary on this topic). I wondered if anyone had views on whether this was acceptable or indicative of a car that had not been driven enough over the past five years. Ive also read a lot of posts that emphasize the importance of a PPI. I was curious as to what the appropriate protocol would be for obtaining one. Do I have dealer make a suggestion (seems to defeat the purpose)? Do I ask them to take the car over to a third party mechanic for inspection? Do I ask for the PPI before negotiating price or after a deal has been made (subject to an acceptable PPI)? I would certainly appreciate any thoughts as to how to pursue the PPI and recommendations for mechanics that would perform one in the Orange County area. I was also curious if anyone had any recommendations with regard to upgrading the sound system. I was a little disappointed that most F430s do not seem to have iPod / XM compatibility. Any recommendations with regard to vendors would be helpful. Finally, I wanted to see if the pricing seemed reasonable. From the research Ive done, the asking price seems to be in line with other offerings that Ive seen out there, but just wanted to make sure that I wasnt getting picked off too badly. Really looking forward to getting a Ferrari hopefully in time for the summer, but definitely need to do my homework first. I would certainly appreciate anyones thoughts/comments with regard to the above.
Sounds like a great car you've found. The CCBs are very cool looking (filling up the entire wheel), but not necessary. The steel brakes are much cheaper to replace. Although if you don't track, the CCBs should last "forever". The low mileage isn't a factor as long as the maintenance schedule was performed. The nice thing about the lower miles is that you can rack some extra ones up without fearing that your putting too many on. The asking price seems to be in line with what I have seen on eBay and other sites. If you plan on driving a lot and don't care about mileage, you can get into an 05 spider with ~10k miles for much less. If the car is coming from a dealer and has the ability to do a warranty extension, you can pass on the PPI. If the car doesn't qualify for an extension, a PPI is a must, especially with the low miles. Some things aren't worked out until the car is driven more. In this case check to see if the exhaust components were replaced under warranty. Depending on your build date you may already have the MkII headers. The stock sound unit is crap. Its awful. I have thought about upgrading mine but I don't drive the car that much and the engine noise is very intrusive to enjoy music. If you plan on doing highway cruising (in a high gear where the revs are low and kept there for a long time), the radio upgrade might be worth it. Best of luck in your search. Don't let a good car get away from you for a few bucks.
I agree the mileage is too low, but just start driving her properly and all should be fine. Get that 1 yr warranty and break her in properly. If the car has all the important options, the price is in the ballpark. Question is just if it's the right car for you. You might want to look for an '08 to have the updated exhaust manifolds.
The Ipod connection and Satellite radios are very rare in F430's and if it has GPS, it's pretty worthless. You'll pay a little more for an 08 because they all came with CCB's. I had them on my car and I liked them. Some feel they aren't worth the extra expense then again, they are on ever Scuderia and Challenge Stradale. The most important factor in finding one is 1) color combo you want 2) mileage, 3) accident history (if any) and 4) condition and maintenance. Find a color combo you like and then investigate further. Price is actually not a major factor. They are all pretty close so don't let a good one go by for a few grand if you find it. You don't buy these every day so get one you really want. The most popular options were Power Daytona seats, F1 gearbox, color stitching in the leather, Challenge rear grill in Carbon Fiber, CF drivers zone (wheel, paddles, and instruments) and Challenge wheels. The CF dash inserts were a no cost option and most seemed to have taken them. The F430 is one of the most popular cars Ferrari has ever made because it is fun to drive, reliable, and has relatively low maintenance costs compared to previous models. Annual maintenance runs about $1200 more or less. It's important to do this as it will help prevent problems and keep the resale value higher than those without. If you buy from an official dealer, see if he can toss in some free warranty time. Some will do this to try to get the sale. Good luck in the search!
+1 ... Try to negotiate an extended warranty or buy the warranty at a reduced price with the car as package, drive it often and if all is good for the first year then you will probably be in the safe side in the long term. This is particularly important for a 5 year car with only 3,000 miles. Good luck, the F430 will not disappoint you.
I will tell you my experience in picking up an 05 Spider with 5000 miles on it just a couple months ago.... As others mentioned, get the color combo and options you want - this is the hardest part of finding the right car. Personally, I think the CCB's are a waste of $. I was looking at one car that had them and another that didn't. The price differential was about $10k (I think it is optioned at $16k on window sticker), but I didn't want them and didn't want to pay the extra they were asking. Personally they are overkill for a street car. The mileage is fine. It's not like the engine is going to die from "unuse." I have no issues with mine. My exhaust manifolds were already replaced by previous owner. I think the headers were updated in the 2007 model? Previous owner did a major (15k maintenance) service on my car 1 month prior at a Ferrari dealer so I did not get PPI. If the dealer just did and has documented recent service, I think you are fine. I do not have warranty. Radio sucks but does not matter because I am always listening to the exhaust note. In a Spider it is even harder to listen to music. But you are now in beautiful sunny Socal! So you will be driving with the top down all the time - it's awesome! Regarding pricing, I guess $170k is around fair market for 2007 Spider with 3k miles. Obviously if you go with an earlier year with similar miles, you will pay less. There are minimal extras an 07 has vs and 05. I didn't feel the need to pay more for later year since updates were minimal. If you found an 05 Spider with similar miles, you should save around $20k.
My only comment is "waste of money". That's a bit strong. I find that a lot of people who say that never drove one with it. CCB's work better, don't fade, don't give brake dust, and last longer as long as you don't track it. I find the replacement cost about the same in the long run. My point has always been... what's the point of buying one of the best sports cars in the world without the best brakes for it? Are they "a waste" on the Scud? I don't think so. It's not a requirement --- but a "waste" I think is a gross overstatement. They are better.
I'd even forgotten they were standard on '08's and up until you mentioned. Big discriminator. For my driving habits, they would be wasted on "me", but that wouldn't make them a waste in general. Hell, the car itself, 90% of it's ability, is wasted on me anyway.
Looks like a good car at a good price. If they can print out the service sheet AND throw in some warranty, I would forego the PPI.
The ccb's work good and look good. What is not to like? Plus you will get some of that $ back when you sell.
I just picked up a 2008 spider, blk, blk with 6 months left on the cube warranty and has 4700 miles. Were asking $189 I paid $172. Lots of options, including iPod and Bose stereo with sub, sounds great with iPod. You can do better on price, also make sure brake and clutch life is good, not just low miles. I would go with 08 for CCB.
My 07 f430 had steel brakes my 599 has CCB's. If you are deciding between two cars then go for it. Otherwise The steel brakes are great.
I bought an '08 f430 with 3800 miles from a dealer in NoCal. The car was "certified" so I got 1 years warranty and 1 years service. I probably paid a little more than I should have but the dealer replaced the clutch that had 90 % left on it and the exhaust manifold for free. Believe me the peace of mind was (and still is) worth every penny. The breaks are also worth it because unless your really hard on them they should last a long time and the lack of brake dust is great not to mention the stopping ability. For these cars get what you want and don't sweat the small stuff. As far as the radio......the exhaust is the best music I could ever listen to!
If you are buying from an official Ferrari Dealer, I strongly doubt that they will even allow you to get an independent PPI. Is the car you are looking at a consigned car?
Katman, Don't know if it's consigned. Certainly something I could ask about if that is important. Little bit of a Catch-22 here as about 80% of responses say defintiely get a PPI or a warranty while most also say that authorized dealers don't allow a PPI. And my understanding is that the one year warranty that is offered is fairly limited in scope.
+1 on the color combo. Don't settle. I fell in love with mine the moment I saw it. It was just under $160 for a 07 one owner with 12,000. Car was not very highly optioned, but had the important stuff Daytona seats, contrast piping... Sticker was $230. Dealer also gave me a Major service, a one year power normal, skid guards, and fixed a list of things that I found thanks the people on this fourm. Especially Trent. I later was able to look at the trade that dealer paid the previous owner. He got a 458 spider BTW. Dealer gave him $142 for my car. Maybe all the stuff they did cost them $8k (trying to make myself not feel so bad). Car was on their floor for one day. I still couldn't be happier. Tomorrow the car goes in for new speakers, amp, sub, satellite radio and iPod dock. Good Hunting.
$142K / $160K. Interesting that you got to see what price they paid your car. Few questions for you. You mentioned that the dealer included a Major service. Was that just prior to purchase or something they offered when it was next due on the car? Also what was included in the one year power normal? Were the things that you found from your own inspection of the car, or did you have a PPI done?
Rockman 1 I agree - it is a real Catch 22. If it is a consigned car, the dealer does not own the car. They are acting as a broker.
Thus I prefaced my statement with "Personally, ...[I feel]...they are a waste of money...." There is no doubt that the carbon ceramics are "made" better for the purpose of thermal resistance. However, most owners of CCB's are not even building enough heat for this purpose on the street. Yes there is less brake dust (but I don't have a problem with my steel brakes), but I agree they do have more longevity. I don't think I will keep my car long enough to reap the benefits of CCB's if I did have them. Scuds are designed more for the racing aspect so I can understand the option on that car. If you read Porsche forums about CCB's you will see this debate as well. Lots say they are not worth the cost. Even for track use, most will switch to steel brakes as they are much cheaper to replace vs. CCB's which do wear on track. As an analogy, I race my Lotus 211 on BBK's on track and for that particular car I feel the BBK's are overkill and will eventually replace with stock brakes. They are too much for the lightweight car (previous owner had them installed). Anyhow my point is that dealers and sellers love to point out CCB options, when in fact I don't think they are really being valued or used for what they were made for (thermal resistance). But then again Ferrari has all sorts of crazy expensive options, like carbon fiber, and most of us buyers love them anyway.
2 months ago I bought my 2007 430 spider also with about 2900 miles on it. So my purchase is probably the closest comp in the country to your proposed purchase that you're going to find. My car was a 2 owner car sold each time by the same Ferrari store and had all service records with such service performed by the same store each time Ask on the car was orig $185 and I paid mid-$170s but here is the real kicker: the car came with 18 months of power normal wty. I knowingly overpaid for this car....it was optioned exactly as I wanted and was the color I wanted. It was sold and serviced by a local store that is owned by a friend of a friend. It had factory warranty that I would have bought myself. I figure I paid 5k more than necessary for the privilege of just saying "done" and putting the car in my garage. I echo bdelp....if you find a good one, don't let it go over a few grand. When you find "the one", you'll know. My advice is don't settle; buy what you want; dont sweat the small stuff. On its face, the $170 is not a stupid ask for the car.
It was a fluke that I saw the other deal on the salesperson's desk. I knew the name of the previous owner because of the service records. I saw his name on the deal for the 458 when my salesman left to make some photocopies. There it was clear as day. The car needed the major service so they did it after I purchased it, but before I took delivery. The Power Normal is from FNA and covers most major stuff. Did not get a PPI. My feeling is if the dealer is reputable and if the car passed the leak down a compression test and all the other stuf that is needed for a FNA warranty you should be fine. That in addition to many of the posts on this site.
