Gearbox locked in Neutral | FerrariChat

Gearbox locked in Neutral

Discussion in '348/355' started by mj_duell, Apr 8, 2012.

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  1. mj_duell

    mj_duell Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2004
    1,421
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    Mike
    #1 mj_duell, Apr 8, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well, I guess something was going to happen by now, lol. I took the car out for a Sunday drive. I took a corner and all of a sudden the entire electrical system shut down. I pulled over and found the rear battery on my 348 got loose and the positive lead touched the frame and shorted everything. Good news is after fixing that the car started and the engine runs fine with no codes. Now the bad news. For some reason the shifter will not move into any gear from neutral. The clutch works fine and there are no signs of fluid leakage, it had also worked very smoothly up until now. I have no idea at all what happened. The car rolls fine, I did not hear any tranny failure noises, I'm stumped. Later I will pull the linkage cover and take a look. I have read some threads here but I do not see solutions yet. Maybe the linkage broke at the same time? Any ideas would be great.

    On a lighter note, my Challenge hook finally got used!, LOL

    Thanks,

    Mike
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  2. tcannon

    tcannon Formula 3

    Feb 18, 2009
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    Hey Mike, sorry to hear about your troubles. Is there any movement at all forward and backward on the shift shaft? Side to side? Tried reverse yet?
     
  3. mj_duell

    mj_duell Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2004
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    There is no real movement at all. It tries to engage 1st, but will not travel at all toward any other gear. I have not had any sounds from the tranny lately and I am hoping it is not a ring nut issue. It rolls freely in neutral and the clutch has pressure. If the throwout bearing was shot it would leak right? I don't have any fluid leakage either. I will start with the linkage box and then maybe take and see if the clutch or parts are messed up. This is really a head scratch-er because I only have the one symptom. If the gear selection is messed up I have no idea where to start.

    Thanks,

    Mike
     
  4. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    #4 2NA, Apr 8, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Did anything fall down through the shift gate? This would be a good first place to look.

    The early cars didn't have a boot (#52) to keep debris out. I've found a lot of coins and other trinkets in there. The "right" thing could jam it.
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  5. troy_wood

    troy_wood Formula 3

    Apr 28, 2007
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    Troy Wood
    We have to assume the shifting problem is directly related to 1)the battery short ,or, 2) the pull from tow truck wench. Yes?
     
  6. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2010
    1,723
    Amsterdam
    Did the tow truck company try to put it into gear (or out of gear) while getting it on the truck? Perhaps it was difficult to shift and one of the tow truck guys inadvertently forced it in or out of gear, bending or breaking a piece in the mechanism.

    Does the side to side movement in neutral feel as it should be? Is it not working with the engine running, or also not working with it switched off?
     
  7. tcannon

    tcannon Formula 3

    Feb 18, 2009
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    You should be able to shift it into gear with the engine off without the clutch just by lightly rocking the car so that would eliminate the clutch.
     
  8. mj_duell

    mj_duell Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2004
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    Then it could be the clutch, but I am not sure. It will not move at all toward 2,3,4,5 or R and only a little towards first. It feels like some kind of mechanical failure or blockage. I do not see anything under the gate so my next set is to check the shifter mechanicals and then the other end of the cables at the transmission. Maybe the shift linkage broke or is jammed. It happened before the towing and was the reason it was towed. I have heard of the shift fork getting stuck, anyone have any input?

    Due to the holiday working on it is out for the next day or two. I will report back what I find. It is strange the way all of this happened.

    Thanks,

    Mike
     
  9. tcannon

    tcannon Formula 3

    Feb 18, 2009
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    I do not think the problem is with the clutch. Like I said, normally, you can shift the gear shifter into gear with or without the clutch when the engine is not running. So if it will not move, the clutch has nothing to do with it. It does sound like something broke or bent in the shift linkage. I cannot imagine a connection to the grounded battery. I can imagine a connection to the wrecker truck towing the car. I think that you will know a lot more as soon as you get the bottom cover off the shift linkage cables. Not much more you can do until then.
     
  10. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,726
    I suspect that some part(s) got welded together in the battery incident.
     
  11. mj_duell

    mj_duell Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2004
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    That theory has been suggested to me a few times. It would have to be one heck of a weld though. I still have not pulled the cover off the shift linkage to see. I hope if that is the case its not inside the transmission but rather in the linkage area. Now that being said, I have a hard time believing that parts could be welded together without some sort of smoke or fire due to the grease in the linkage area. I looked at the shifter and parts below it and everything seems fine in there. I will remove the ends of the cables and test to see if the problem is somewhere between the cable ends and the shifter. If not then I will begin to really be concerned.

    --Mike
     
  12. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Not that it could happen in this case.

    Your problem reminded me of a 308 that was towed in one December day, that wouldn't shift.

    His top didn't seal well and the shift tower had filled with water that was now ice. :eek:

    Once it warmed up I drilled a small hole in the bottom so it wouldn't happen again.
     
  13. mj_duell

    mj_duell Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2004
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    The problem existed before the tow truck even got there and the car was stuck in neutral. So my issue is not related to the tow. So I am pretty sure that the problem is not related. Whatever happened is very strange. I looked at the ground cable going from the battery to the frame and even though it heated up a lot there is no sign in the area of transmission of melting where the cable is bolted.

    --Mike
     
  14. tcannon

    tcannon Formula 3

    Feb 18, 2009
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    Ok, well, that does eliminate the tow truck. I really doubt that this issue was caused by the battery problem. Sometimes, things just happen at strange times. Did you say whether or not you could move the shifter from side to side? When you move the shifter from side to side, you are also moving each shift cable back and forth in opposite directions. This rotates the shifting yoke at the end of the cables. When you move it forward or backward, you are sliding the shift yoke forward and backward. So knowing if you can move the shifter side to side would tell us that the shift cables are not frozen. That would mean that the problem is the shift yoke not sliding forward and backward for some reason. This could be that the yoke itself is jammed somehow or a problem in the gear box. Let's hope it is jammed yoke. Good luck.
     
  15. mj_duell

    mj_duell Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2004
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    That is a good analysis and helpful. I cannot move the stick at all to the right from center. I can move it to the left from center, but not into reverse or 1st gear. As I rock the shifter and look down into the shift box I can see the cable on the right move back and forth, the cable on the left is not moving at all! I am unable to move the shifter forward or back ward from center either.

    --Mike
     
  16. tcannon

    tcannon Formula 3

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    Interesting! It sounds like something in the shift box itself may have broken. Because both levers coming out of the bottom of the shift box should move when you move the shifter side to side. So if only one side is moving, there is no way you can get it into gear because the shift yoke cannot be moved by only one cable. I think that you will need to pull your shift box out so you can take a look at the shift mechanism inside. The good news is that I really do not think it is the gear box. I have a spare shift box. I will try to make a video showing how the internal parts should be moving if everything is in good shape. That should help give you something to compare. I picked the shift box and shift cables up just to have on hand if something like this happened. I will try to get the video up later this evening. Thanks
     
  17. mj_duell

    mj_duell Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2004
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    Right after I take a peek into the control box under the car and make sure the cable ends are attached and everything is O.K. I will do that. Now...How do you do that? I assume the shifter box is removed from under the car?

    --Mike
     
  18. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
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    I think I would be inclined to go along with Mitch here (post 10). I would guess that the shifter cables completed an electrical loop, heated up, and melted the braided cables into their housings. Easy to diagnose for yea or nay.
     
  19. mj_duell

    mj_duell Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2004
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    I agree there too and that will be the first test. I will undo the cable ends in the control box under the transmission. If the shifter gets freed up then my issue is in the linkage or the (sigh) transaxle, if not then its either the shifter box or cables. Either way the shifter cables and box need to come out and tested. Any other ideas would be great.

    --Mike
     
  20. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    #20 2NA, Apr 9, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    You'll need to remove underpanels #27 & #40 to have access to the cables. Miltonian might be on to something. If one cable was a high current path to ground, it could be stuck. That would cause the symptoms you have described. If not you should have a view of what else is wrong.

    It is easier to disconnect the cables at the gearbox. You might try that to see if the shifter moves before removing all the nuts and screws on those panels.
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  21. BeachBum

    BeachBum Formula 3

    Sounds like a couple of the fingers on the pressure plate have broken off. How many miles are on her since the clutch has been done.
     
  22. emailben

    emailben Karting

    Feb 10, 2012
    195
    San Jose, CA
    I thought the same - fingers on the pressure plate might be broken.
     
  23. mj_duell

    mj_duell Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2004
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    What are the symptoms of that? Has anyone had that happen? Why would it lock the shifter in all directions? If I remove the shifter and linkage from the equation then I guess I will have to look there as well. This is getting interesting!

    --Mike
     
  24. tcannon

    tcannon Formula 3

    Feb 18, 2009
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    This would have nothing to do with the shifter not moving side to side. You can sit in your car and move the shifter from side to side without pressing the clutch. Something is wrong with either the shift box itself or a cable. After taking a look at my spare shift box, I really think it is something broken in there. Because if one of the cables was frozen by being welded in place or something, you should not be a able to move the shifter to either side. This is because as one leg of the shift box moves one way, the other must move the other way as the shifter is moved sideways. So if one of the cables was frozen, you should not be able to move the shifter sideways at all. I do agree that the first step is to remove the lower cover under the shift cables. The shift box is removed from the top of the floor pan. So that would mean removing the center console. Not fun.
     
  25. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    LMAO!

    Just exactly how would that affect the shifter?
     

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