Ferrari markets its vehicles to promote the next best one over the older best one. What I mean by this is the "time line" that the Ferrari vehicles are produced and brought forth to the public. The 360 was the next best car, then came along the Stradale. It was awesome in itself having the HP and sports car rawness and passion. Next Ferrari has to market a car with better stats like hp and gadgets, so you will buy it. So now you have the F430 which some people say is better than the CS while the true raw sports people are satisfied with the CS and do not want the F430. Ok, now comes the Scuderia again with better stats like HP and gadgets so you will buy it. Ferrari has this plan down cold. Ok time has past now Ferrari comes in with the 458----------better stats but is it better than the scuderia? Ferrari will always make sure the next car has better stats than the last to get the public to buy it. Does that mean it is a better car?---------???? Take a look at what is happening with the 599 then the 599 GTO then the F12---------Do you see it now? Most owners of the GTO will say the GTO is the better car still even with the F12 improved stats like HP and gadgets, but is it really??? It may be? This is why I say it is ok to compare the next latest and greatest to the one that its replacing in the TIME LINE of production. The Apples to Oranges theory has its place in this world but not with Ferrari marketing at least to me. That is why they produce the next one in line to have better stats and better track times to get "you" to buy it and pay attention to it, while trading in your Scud to buy the 458. With that said, I do compare the Scud to the 458----why not Ferrari does. Furtheremore, I do not believe Scud owners have 458 envy, at least I do not. The 458 is the next car made after the scud. it has better stats and satisfies the owners in believing they have a better car than the scuderia. That is what Ferrari is hoping for. The daily driver aspect does help sell the 458. Time line is the major factor with Ferrari to which aids in our mis-placed anger regarding the 458 or Scud debate. Most of the statements that have been said are true regarding the scud and 458. It depends what catagorie you fall into. That makes most all of us correct in our decisions and Ferrari purchases. greyhair
Hmmmm... you can buy a good Scud now for maybe 170K. The cheapest out the door 458 you can get is most likely $245. On the used market-- higher. That's in today's dollars. In today's dollars, that's all that matters. And, as to the "wait 2 years and lets see" people, I refer you to 2009 when EVERYONE on Fchat said the California would be half price in 18 months. They were wrong. And, to add insult to injury, during that same time Scud prices fell 100K while CA's have held most of their values. The only F430 variation that is holding value is the 16M. And, ironically, it's the car that most Scud owners "poo-pooed" because it wasn't as light or pure track focused as the Scud. That's what I call: Irony.
I have owned a 360 , 430 and now a 458. Each year the F cars are less expensive to maintain and better to live with. I have driven a scud and it is a blast. The dealer told me the scud will beat a 458 on the track but on the street the 458 is faster. You mention alot of cars I currently own and you missed a few. As you said depends on what you want. great posts Lee
Your biased Onno. Because you have bought the 458 it is influencing your thinking. I am unbiased. I own neither and Scud nor a 458. I want to buy the best car period. I also own other cars but they are all Oldtimers which is my true passion. But I want a modern super car and it is ABSOLUTELY fair to compare the 458 with the Scuderia. And the Scuderia is better, but thats my personal view. I am just trying to educate others on my experience.
bdelp - you keep forgetting we are talking about 430 Scuderia not the f430?? In regards to you reliability issues? We are not talking f430 here but Scud also please refer to F430GT In regards to your misleading post, better brakes - Refer to F430GT - pretty clear. Better transmission - Hmm funny Ferrari used the Scuderia transmission in the 599GTO not the heavier 458 tranny which Im not referring to the 3 tranny problems 1 users referred to ( but thanks for pointing out and confirming the 458 is having tranny problems), I was making point Ferrari has made 3 major ongoing changes from 2010 to 2012 on the 458 Gearbox. Not to meantion Ferrari has changed the software in 458 to give it more a Scud tranny feel, hmm code name Scuderia Envy Software?? Also another interesting note you are so quick to disregard users complaining about 458 tranny problems but then use to back up your point claims of users having issues with 430, so I don't get it why does other users information not work/count for you when talking about 458 but it works counts for you when talking about 430 but the fact is we talking about Scuderia not 430?? Better suspension, again refer to F430GT post (which you as a 458 owner had know idea about about, you learned something today thanks to F430GT about the china made steel suspension bits) Ferrari has cut corners in cost and material to produce the suspension over the Scuderia steel vs Titanium. I guess if all one does is cruiser up and down the strip in Las Vegas I can understand how you fail to understand the difference between a Scud and a 458. The OP clearly stated he wanted to do some tracking with his car, so again with all that has been presented if tracking your car is something you have plans to do I still sticking with my story go with the Scuderia, you will be much happier.
And.... I've said this for like one million times here: If you want a track car or a more "raw" feeling, buy a Scud over a 458. Now, to be frank, putting a Scud on the track makes zero sense for me because you can do a whole lot better for less money but you can't put the Prancing Horse logo's on your Nomex. On the street, the 458 is clearly superior UNLESS you want that "raw" feeling. I don't. Many don't. That, to me, is the end of the discussion. They are two different cars for two different purposes and two different mind sets. Both are correct. As to me cruising down the LV strip: Yes, with my hot Ukrainian Girlfriend in the passenger seat. It works for me. I love how this car drives on the streets. If I want to go on a track, I'll take a real track car and not some pretty ego trip that lets me play Alonso for a day.
I guess the confusing part for me is who goes out and buys a high end sports car then complains it's not luxury enough? When I buy a sports car I want pure sport simple as that, if I want luxury I don't care for sport. Agreed different strokes for different folks, but if you actually read what the OP was asking I still think a Scuderia would be more up his alley than the 458. Anyone complaining a Scud is to stiff? Comes off very comical, it is far from to stiff but it is a sports car what did you expect?
To the original poster, a bunch of great information has been posted here for both cars. Clearly the 458 is a sweet car and worthy of anyone's considerations in the market for a F-car, the same could be said for the 430 Scuderia. I will admit due to my ownership of 16m I am a bit of a homer/fanboy/bias towards the Scuderia. Take any of my information with a grain of salt. Awhile back I was in the same position trying to figure out new 458 or used 16m, after countless hours I went with the 16m for many of the reasons stated here by the Pro Scuderia crowd. I have not regretted my purchase at all. With that said 458 is an amazing car and has a bunch of positives going for it. I think for the simple fact you prefer to track the car occasionally the Scuderia would be the better choice for you. It is easier to drive a car casual when needed than trying to drive a car more sporty on track when needed. In the end we all (458, Scud/16m/430/360 etc owners) love these cars, we all are very passionate fans and share a common bond with the love for F-cars. Do what you think is best since it's your money, if you can try and drive both cars and make a final choice, if you don't and just pick one or the other, trust me you will love the car and it will put a smile on your face every time you drive it. Good luck in the quest and keep everyone posted in the direction you go. Bdelp in closing you clearly have a fine taste in cars and have some good input to offer, along with many other users on this site. Everyone be safe & enjoy these amazing cars and keep the rubber side down.
BTW: I think the 16M is one of the most awesome cars of all time. I didn't buy one but I had the chance to get a red one with red stitching in an all black interior. Whoever got that car got something fantastic.
If it were my choice, it would greatly depend on how often I was using the car. The 458 is absolutely a better daily or regularly driven Ferrari. It rides well, has low NVH, shifts smoothly, has a nicely finished interior, etc. It's a multi-purpose Ferrari and that's why it appeals to the majority of buyers. Yet, when a car is designed that way, some character and focus are often lost. For many this is irrelevant, for others it matters. If I was only using the car on the weekends, I would want more of a motorsport type experience. I would prefer a car like the Scuderia or, better yet, the new 458 Corsa (or whatever its name will be). As long as the special cars sell, Ferrari will continue selling them. They may appeal to a special buyer, but that makes them no less significant. I wonder...what happens when the Corsa comes out and is not only much improved over the Scuderia, it does everything as well or better than the 458? Hmm.
The Scud is electric to drive, no question and fantastic buying for a thoroughbred of such performance , BUT, it still has a dry single clutch, you still need to keep on top of the ball joints and tie-rods in the suspension make up especially if the roads you drive on are average quality, where as the 458 has managed these nuances much better and appear to have address reliability whilst improving on performance. Track the Scud on baby smooth race tracks and you're ok, it's a weapon for sure. For me, the 458 on the track is very quick, loud and aggressive, athletic and very sharp, and the best thing is that you can driver her home in SPORT mode and enjoy some Chopin. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Lovely picture. As bhelp said, comparing the 458 and Scud is somehow an invalid comparison. It depends on how someone wants their Ferrari to be. A daily driven car, and can bring it to a track occasionally? Or someone who prefer a hardcore daily driven Ferrari like the Scud. Raw and tough! It's all a matter of preference, I would say.
Sure my friend. Whatever makes you convinced your view of the world is the correct one is fine by me. Because I don't need to win this argument. I don't need you to like the 458. I know what I know from personal experience and an open mind, and actually loving both these models. I will say it again: the Scuderia is a fantastic car and for some drives it is a better car than a 458. Just not for all of them (fact), and not for most of the ones that I do with my Ferraris. What you do with yours is up to you, and kudos if you like the Scud and if it is the best car for you. The world would be a dull place if everyone liked the same things. Stop trying to convince others and just take your car for a drive and enjoy it! Onno
+1 Buy and drive what you like. Each and everyone has worked hard to be in a position to buy one of these sports cars. Every owner and driver has different requirements/needs so it's pointless comparing the 2 cars on its own. Both cars are fantastic and if I had the room I'd take one of each. In the end, I'm sure anyone who owns either chose the one that fits them best. Simply put, there are more comfortable road cars than the italia, and there more focused track cars than the scud, so i think this alone negates all the "i'm best-of-everything" arguments on both sides here. We're all sucessful and logical people, and have selected the car that best suits our own needs. There is NO NEED nor is there any value in talking down each others cars. If you have a strong opinion, keep it to yourself. Facetious comments inclusive. Let's close this debate and go enjoy a drive whichever car you chose to own.
Here's my 2 cents, and maybe worth less: CS most raw modern V8 Ferrari, with most feel, and best for track. Scud less feel and less good looking than CS, but finished nicer and much faster. 458 brings back stunning looks, is most usable, and is fastest of the three in most situations. Porsche GT3 better track car than all three, Lotus also better. Above based on owning and tracking all the above. Best.
Good summary, mostly agree. However, I've seen some other folks that track cars post here saying their Scud is superior to GT3 (996, 997.1 or 997.2) on the track...now, please go back and put something deragotory about one brand of car owner or the other in your post in keeping with the theme of this thread ;-)
I disagree. I have been through 2 GT3 (996 and 997 RS), they have been unreliable, and more expensive to run than my Scuderia. 3 clutches in the 996 GT3, 3 diffs in the 996 GT3, 2 engines in the GT3 RS, engine out 6 times in the GT3 RS, multiple oil and coolant leaks, worn our subframes, control arms replaced, horrible shock/spring setup forcing to go aftermarket for the suspension. The list of reliability problems is long. Lotus?? talk to owners that track them, they break everything. Most fun Ferrari ==> The 360 Challenge Stradale. The CS raw feel has to do with 3 things: the 308 based engine with 5 valves per cylinder, the wrong alignment, and exhaust. 360CS for track? good luck. Check the serviceability of the F430 Challenge vs. 360 Challenge, 360CS is best for track if you want to go slow, and spend lots of $$$. Best for Track: Scuderia and 599 GTO. Most Fun: Stradale (with corrected alignment, 3 hours job) Best for Racing: any purpose build race car, any brand, too many choices Best GT car: 599 GTB HGTE and 458 Italia
Interesting classifying these two cars in the same catagorie. Even though the engine placement is at opposite ends of the driver seat. I love it.
