The Stradale is a tail happy car, tail happy cars are fun until you hit 10/10th. Ferrari put very little toe-in on the rear axle. The fix is easy, just use 0.25 degrees toe-in per rear corner (0.50 degrees total), and the car will get a planted rear end automatically. The 360 and F430 suspension toes out during compression, so spirited driving or track driving can get the Stradale toe-out at the rear axle, at which point the rear will suddenly slide. This is one of the main reasons most Challenge Stradales have a history of accidents, and it is so difficult to find a clean one (one that has not been wrecked). Most non-wrecked Stradales are not driven, or driven at car show speeds, pace car speeds, U.S. highways speeds. Once these cars are driven near the limits, they bite. The fix is simple, bring it to your local alignment shop, pay $89, and use the same specs as factory except rear toe-in as described above. Mid-engine cars and sudden oversteer require decent driving skills to correct, if driver is not aware or trained, losing control is expected. Another problem with Stradales, people still running on rubber no longer good. A heat cycled out Pirelli Corsa System tire has very low grip compared to a fresh tire, or even better the 10 years more advanced in technology, longer lasting and cheaper tires available today. Pirelli Corsa System die at 30 Heat cycles, they can have full thread, but grip is gone.
I am not trying to convince anyone. I do not have too. I am just trying to put out unbiased information and share my opinion based on my experience. And that is what this forum is supposed to be right? I just want people to know that you are biased because of your ownership. They should take that in mind when reading your posts. Ofcourse for some the Scuderia is more interesting for others the 458 with is all round purpose suits people better. I am fine by that. I own no modern super car and am shopping for one. Based on my experience I am most likely going to buy a Scuderia rather than a 458. I want people to know that. Thats all. That is what this post is originally about: I remind you one more time: Scud or 458? For me its clear. Scuderia.
It needs the understanding of what a GT car is. A GT is a compromise between a street car and a Sport car. Comfortable enough as a street car with a sport character. A full street car, Mercedes/BMW/Audi or even a Kia Rio doesn't have the sport character. A Sport car is typically too raw, or too compromised to be a GT car. The 911 GT3 and GT3 RS are sport cars, while the 911 Turbo is a GT car. The Audi R8 is a GT in all its versions. All recent Lamborghinis are GT cars, even their lightened versions (still too heavy). Sport cars are light, loud, stiff, higher NVH. Very few sport cars are being built these days.
I really like your posts which are filled with opinions backed up by experience and data!!! I am surprised that you classify the GT3 and GT3RS in the same Sport category. I have my eyes on a 991 GT3 with PDK as a daily driver and occassional track car...AND I am on a waitlist for a 458 Spider allocation!
GT3 and GT3 RS are raw cars. The engine and transmission came straight from a racing program started with the 996 GT3 Cup in 1998. In 1999 Porsche made a street legal GT3 Cup (a stripper Carrera, sound insulation removed, complete new powertrain), and the car has been evolving from there. Unfortunately, in 2005 Porsche switched to a race-only sequential transmission, stopping race development of the GT3 transmission, so the transmission has not improved at all, except minor gear-ratio changes, and still a multitude of reliability problems (shifter, LSD, pressure plate, clutch disc, axles). Unfortunately, the 991 GT3 is not looking good, no racing program is running the engine that is very likely to get its way in the 991 GT3 (the 9A1), same thing for the PDK, Porsche is not racing the PDK anywhere. All the electronic gizmos added to the 991 (Torque vectoring, sport PASM, active sway bars, electric power steering) are going to be very hard on the next GT3 character, most likely moving the GT3 into a GT market (where it could sell more) than a Sport car market. Hopefully, Porsche doesn't let the next GT3 RS become a GT as well. The best GT3 right now, and very likely the best for years to come, the GT3 RS 4.0.
Absolutely. Every time I say that the Scud is a fantastic car, they should know it comes from a 458 owner. Every time I say the Scud is better for hard core drives, they should know it is from a 458 owner. Every time I say the 458 is the better car on a daily basis, they should know it is from a 458 owner. Scud? Love it, love it, love it. Just chose the 458, though. Fine! Go and buy one and stop talking about it! For me it is also clear. 458! So what? Onno
You didn't ask me, but I do categorise the Scud as a sportscar. I don't categorise the 458 the same. The 458 is a sports GT, completely in line with F430GT's assesment. Onno
Onno I remind you this is a chat forum. And the main topic was 458 vs Scud. So I will talk about it all day long if I feel like it. I wish you much happiness with the 458. Its really a fantastic car. I will never forget the first day I drove it. It put every other super car to shame that I have ever driven. Until the Scuderia
Your opinion is a fair one and one which I agree with! Btw I like your personal collection of Ferrari's. You have good taste and also like the past era of Ferrari much like myself.
Did you consider getting the 16M instead of the 458 Spider? I presume the 16M will retain its value better over time due to its rarity then the 458 Spider. Do you concur? I love both. The problem is that I think I am better suited for the 458, but prefer the collectibility of the 16M. Decision, decisions. I'm considering getting a 16m for a year (until my spider arrives) but am afraid that I may be wrong about the depreciation. Thoughts?
Hi OP. I think you should buy 430 Scud. 458 is mass produce and overprice! I owned both. 458 Ferrari still using 30 year old aluminium chassis because Italy carbon fiber maker went bankrupt in 06. Yep Ferrari want to use carbon fiber chassis but factory is broken in Italy... ATR carbon fiber is name of place. So they say they have space aluminum but this is 30-50 year old stuff. Go to italy to see there, i go there to talk with racer...... 458 is for old customer who want good look car but only engine is good rest is old old old technology and suspension from GM in USA. Joke!!! I am very upset with why I buy 458. 430 Scuderia is real Ferrari, 458 is Chevy Ferrari! This car will fall bad bad in price, already in europe you buy 458 in france for 170k USD!! Cheaper then Scuderia. Yes pls read this up to see. Also getrag transmission is garbage! Go fly to Italy talk to the race team there they off the record tell you this is mass produce transmission for customer who want some smooth shift. Getrag put this gear into volkswagen, bmw and other maker. 430 scuderia have transmission not possible to break! I sell my 430 Scud and buy 458 and only have problems.... big plus to 458 is here girl go crazy when see.... I mad at Ferrari because 458 not so good... overprice by 50%. 430 Scuderia best Ferrari I think in 15 year.....
Hi I think so 458 nice nice to park in restaurant and in club with nice girl in passenger, but this car is like armani suit. Look flash but have no cash! No good for real car guy, 430 Scuderia I think so will be last real ferrari made. I fly to Italy to see what happen there, not so good lots of problem Ferrari have to make car now easy to drive and soft for new china market(China people not know how to drive) and old man USA customer..... Sad sad day. I am angry
Hi pls read up post. 458 have 0 new technology. 50 year old aluminum chassis, mass produce getrag transmission, and magneto suspension like in corvette and other USA made car. Ferrari take technology from delphi, this is USA made no good. Engine only good part in 458, rest old old tech. Pls go buy ticket to Ferrari factory in italy, they want to build original 458 from carbon fibre but ATR italy went bankrupted, so had to use old aluminum technology. Yep, you know 458 frame is same tech as 1980.... only today is cheaper to make. You wanted lust for new technology, ok pls go buy Mclaren Mp4-12c They offer actual different tech and same price. 458 price should be MSRP 150k.. Ferrari 458 is OLD but charge price like new(because of brand). 430 Scuderia is much better car....... unless you like to go to nightlife in 458 and be cool. Go try race 458 on track! Will be broken fast..... I am soooo mad at my car.
MingMing, I agree with Bkhko in that your reference to Chinese people not knowing how to drive is offensive and discriminatory, this is an intelligent forum and cheap pot shot comments to vent your frustration has no place on Fchat. the 458 is a technological marvel and has attracted praise from even the most harden critic. there is a valid engineering reason why the factory and its designers have stayed with the space age aluminium chassis, perhaps on your next factory visit you can ask why.
Hello, yes I am sorry for this. My joke in english is not too good. Can you please tell me which technological marvel you are referring to in 458? It have nothing really new..... DFI engine already in california and lots of makers before. Suspension you know is from delphi USA, almost same as new corvette? This is a heavy car too! There is no new tech in anything on 458.... just update parts ie ediff version 3.0. Ok you know ATR carbon fiber? This is company who make enzo, lambo, carrera GT tub frames. The go bankrupt in 06-07 just when Ferrari started frst stage of 458 frame design... Of course Factory will tell you how great aluminum is, you think they would tell customer oh we had better plans? Common.... 458 is a good car but it have too many problem and not live up to the price Ferrari ask. Scuderia is much much better car for everyone except those who like latest coolest thing.... or like soft car they can drive 100km/h on highway ramp and to a little restaurant and smile when come outside. For OP if he want smile everyday, better Scuderia because 458 will make him sad fast like me. http://www.atrgroup.it After ATR go into trouble, Fiat and some other maker in Italy rescue it becuase they need the factor still alive for future project, but not enough time and cost to quickly do a new body for 458. If you think aluminium is cutting age you must be live in cave, this technology is 50 year old... next 458 replacement will have CF tub you will see from ATR.
I am surprised to see such a heated debate over this subject. I have a 458 coupe and think it drives pretty aggressively. Now, I want to drive a 430 scud just to see what all the fuss is about. Anyone heard any rumors about the 458 Scud...or whatever it will be called?
Scuderia is real ferrari. It is very light, development with schumacher you can see all the contribution on this car. Engine is so good, transmission I swear it best I drive for aggressiveness. 458 is soft man, this car good for highway driveing and USA 35mph curve roads. 430 Scud you take any passenger and they go crazy when this car shift my god.... 458 is GOOD car but not 300k car, maybe 150-180k MSRP US should be proper pricing I think. Maybe 458 Scud they get rid of getrag VW transmission from Germany. What is funny to me is Mclaren use italian made transmission...... I hope so 458 Scud is back to 2900lb 600hp and proper transmission. I be happy then. 458 to me now is like better Audi R8, better engine noise and looks. But Ferrari has to be Ferrari.....
MingMing --- we've had this argument about 6000 times already. The 458 is NOT another Scud. It's not designed or intended to be one. The 458 is intended to be a better F430, which it is by a million miles. It's not even in the same universe. If the 458 was another Scud, I wouldn't want one. A lot of people don't want a track car for the streets. Some do --- you do -- but don't criticize the vast majority who DON'T. So, sell your 458 and buy track car and be happy. I'm sure someone would love to buy it from you. The cars are apples and oranges. 99.9999999% of all Ferrari road car miles are NOT on a track. So, what's more important for them to pay attention too? Lastly, a car is NOT about the parts you put in it. Who freakin' cares if it has an aluminum chassis or CF? What's important is the driving experience. The McLaren has a CF tub. Great. It also has hydraulic suspension to make it ride "like a Cadillac". Sorry, if I want a ride like a Cadillac, I'll buy a Cadillac and save a $200K dollars.
Yes you correct. Ferrari recipe is LIGHT CAR WITH crazy engine. I not want a plush soft 458 that is closer to Germany car building thinking. 458 does not make anything special feeling when driving, ok very synthetic engine noise. I thinked this car is made for old Ferrari customer in mind. Because you know this right? Today younger people 30-45 only in Asia have money, in US and EU is most customer old. Ferrari now with Fiat is more corporate, so they must be thinking how to push profit high. Yes 458 good road car, but 100k+ more then current scuderia prices? Wow. OP better to buy Scuderia for 180k and new mercedes with extra 120k saved(E63 AMG with 570hp) to drive day, and Scuderia for fun. My point was 458 is GOOD but not great sorry. This car will drop bad in price, why now I see in france Scuderia cost more then 458 ok? Buyer will realize that Ferrari will never again make car like 430 scuderia becuase now will be all green batteries(hybrid, kers) and this..... man you think I want to not like 458? I love Ferrari but this car is no special.... Ok 250GT come out, there was no much other competitors, + it have super super classy style and great motor sound. Today we live in different world. Lots of choice to pick from for cars.... lots of mass production... corporation take over. Is like restaurant, you go to franchise to find best food or to small unique place, understand this concept? Ferrari is now a corporate brand.... they must target customer market that pay and if this mean compromise OK no problem. Enzo originally never compromise to customer, but yes you right now time change......
The engine noise may be "synthetic" as you say but that doesn't mean I still don't love it. Isn't that the point?
I just test drove a 458 and scud back to back to see what all this fuss is about. The scuderia is mind blowing ,its really that good. Very intense great character,great sound, more feedback on the gearshifts. 458 is a fantastic GT car with dual personality, in race mode it feels like 70 percent scud , but the scud feels like that all the time at every speed. Bottom line as much as i love the 458 , scud left a lasting impression. I just cannot get over how mental the scud felt. 458 felt more digital in feel. But i have to say scud is not for everyone, its too loud , too bare , not so comfortable, no luxuries. For daily drive 458 italia for sure , for a wild weekend car scud all the way! Wish it looked as good as 458.
