Valve cover seal and gasket replacement

Gentlemen
The front and rear valve cover seal or gaskets on my 1988.5 328GTS are leaking oil.
I am getting conflicting advice.., is this an engine out procedure or can this be done with the engine in. My understanding is the rear valve cover is the problem. Any advice would be most appreciated.
Doug

 

Doug,

Whom ever is giving you advice to remove the engine should be shot...They clearly don't have a clue. The easiest way would be to remove the rear deck lid. This will give you all the access you need to replace the gaskets and seals. If a major service hasn't been done in a while, this is the perfect time.

David

 

Defintly not "engine out". Might not just be the valve covers though - there are 3 camshaft oil seals on each bank - two at the front & one at the distributor & then there is a gasket on the end plate at the front bank & the end plate with the breather/oil drain on the rear.

Either way, all of it can be done with the engine in. If they are doing the camshaft oil seals then the cams have to come out & it makes sense to check the valve clearances at the same time.

Making the cam covers seal is not hard but it does need to be done with some care & attention to areas where gaskets & seals meet.

 

Basically the same as a 308 I guess. I did mine in place in the past. If the gear side of the cam has to be done you will have to remove the belts which is more work than just the cover gaskets.

 

+1
He's the guy that would know best.

 

+1 Some out there sure tell some wild tales....

 

Clean the gasket area to as surgically clean and dry as possible after scraping/removing the old gaskets, then use this on both sides of the new gasket to seal deal. Won't leak, ever.
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I can show you how to replace the seals but you have to learn french

http://www.forum-auto.com/marques/ferrari/sujet3922.htm



Some tips;

- Use high quality gaskets and not cheap paper gaskets (sponges) who favorize the oil seeping

- Clean all surfaces properly, take care do not scratch the sealing surfaces, use an appropriate tools

- Install the cover gaskets dry

- Lubricate with engine oil the lipseals and the o-rings before installation. Do not use silicone compound on the O-rings !

- Use a drop of Loctite 518 to make the jonction between the cover gaskets and the o-ring and between the cover gaskets and the gaskets on the blaking cover gasket (Inlet camshaft) and the ignition lipseal support gasket.

- The lipseals on the ignition side have two lips (Post production Service Bulletin 10-18), take care to not bend the inner lip. To facilitate the installation use a piece of milard or similar to guide the lips during installation.

- To prevent leaks, do not overtorque the cover nuts, use a torque wrench


And finally, the job can be done without removing the engine and without removing the engine bonnet.


Good luck....

 

I am partial to Hylomar, for years now.

 

Good luck for remove the covers at the next valve clearance check


If the contact surfaces of the covers are perfectly flat and clean, with the original gaskets and the propre torque it will not leaking.

 

I am confused here folks. Are all practices equally valid?

 

No...

 

Would you care to elaborate Dave?

 

David, what's your voodoo. Everyone seems to have one lol.

Personally, I don't like Hylomar in these applications. The only thing I ever used hylomar on was sealing cylinder liner o-rings to Lotus 907 blocks which was factory recommended.

 

I just removed mine to retorque the heads after the engine broke in. Was easy, but it's definitely easier with other sealants. I just don't think they work as well.

 

Personaly, I follow David's advice beofore I try anything mentioned on Fchat. He has too many years of experience to ignore or question really. He's never steered me wrong.


From what I have read over the years here they should be installed dry.


http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=298809

 

Well, like the oil argument, everyone has an opinion...most of which are either dated or incorrect. The same holds true here on the valve covers. The QV cars have there own unique sealing issues, as the o-ring holders float. I'm of the school that less is more...and for sealing to actually occur, the surfaces need to be spotless. Sometimes that actually means removing those pesky valve cover studs to get the last 25 years of excess silicone and crap removed. Once clean, the only sealant applied is at the ends...and a tiny amount it is. This is how the factory did it. There are a few exceptions, particularly if some yahoo scraped the living sheet out of the valve cover or head sealing surfaces. Then a ultralight skim coat may, may be needed.

For sealants in this particular area, there are several great choices. Sorry gents, old habits die hard and Hylomar of any variety just isn't on my list. I use either ThreeBond, UltraGray or HondaBond. Currently, I'm switching over to the ThreeBond product, as John has spoken very highly of it in our conversations. He is knowledgeable and I trust his judgement. In many respects, this may be a better product than the others, other than perhaps its high temperature limit, which is a bit lower than the others.

I have no voodoo. No secret tricks, just tried and proven or disproved methodologies. Many, many hundreds of cars over many years with delighted customers.Every once in a great while, we get a leaker. The problem is always "operator error"; me!

That's my story and I'm sticking to it...

 

let me elaborate:

I smear on the valve cover gaskets a very thin layer of Hylomar (they have recently changed the composition) on almost all gaskets I install for all cars. They have never leaked. And it is much better than silicon RTV. Hylomar stays wet, seals well, and does not plug up oil holes.

For the circular oil seals, I install them dry on the outside, wet with oil on the inside, taking care not to pinch of flip the oil sealing lips.

Where the round o-rings meet the paper valve cover gaskets, I use a pick to put on a very small amount of RTV so that there is no excess squeezed out and fallen down into any oil galley holes.

That is how I do the valve covers and seals. There may be other ways that are equally correct, but this is my way.

 

Guys, you should see the problem from another view....

The covers are mounted on the cylinderheads and machined together. Therefore the clearance is so tight that you dont need an additional sealant to the gaskets, they are installed dry.
Pls keep in mind that each cylinderheard has his own cover !


Also on the O-rings, an oil film on the O-ring and in the grooves is suffiscent to make a proper assembling





The way how the guy has installed the O-ring as showned on the bellow phtograph is to be denied !
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Thanks you all for the words of wisdom.

 

Dave, so I take it that, like Constance, you are installing the valve cover gaskets "dry." I learned to do a lot of these jobs a long time ago, and old habits die hard, I guess. I've always used Hylomar, as most of my work was on old Jaguars, and the Jaguar shop manuals call for the use of Hylomar as a sealant on gaskets. So I carried that over to the Ferraris, and it's always worked well for me. I apply a very thin layer on both sides of the gaskets, and install, and torque to WSM recommendation, and no leaks.

But what you say does make sense, both you and Constance. Next time, I might try it your way, and go with the dry gaskets, even though it goes against what I've always done.

And by the way, what's the objection to Hylomar? I have no great love for the stuff, other than it's what I've always used. But I'm open to change, especially since it's hard to find these days.

 

The real trick is not sealing valve cover gaskets so they don't leak, but sealing oil pan gaskets so they don't leak. Those silly things are monsters and personally I can't get them to not leak without pulling and sealing each and every stud and then using Threebond 1194 on the gasket sides to a surgically clean surface, and then tightening each holding nut according to a criss cross sequence to 7-8lbs torque. The valve cover gaskets don't seem to be as sensitive when it comes to sealants.

If hylomar works for ya, use it. I don't have much experience with it other than the Lotus cylinder liner application which Lotus recommends. Must be a British thing.....

 

Again, you will never get a leaking oil pan access panel if:

- The original gaskets are used (Dry installed),
- The access panels are perfectly flat and clean (Not bend due to overtorque)
- Soft aluminium washers and domenuts are used and properly torqued
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From my very old Lotus and Hewland transaxle days, it seemed that if Hylomar was used, a leak was guaranteed! Then again, it was a Lotus...LOL!

 

I agree with your thinking, but the likelihood of this being true is almost zero. Not zero, but close. I like your optimism, though...