430 Scud or 458?

That same article has the Scud hitting 60 in 3.1 seconds. A lot of magazines have discrepancies in regards to information. I love the 458, and it is a "faster" car. But the Scud will be my next stop.

 

Best of luck with the Scud, they are a fantastic cars. I simply took offense when it was being written that the Scud accelerates as fast or faster then the 458 at all speeds above 60 mph. That was false and I had to speak up. All the rest to each his own everyone is entitled they their own opinion, and has different taste, but facts are facts.

 

I hear ya. Facts are facts. And all facts would lead one to believe that a 458 out accelerates a Scud (if you can even tell in real world driving) I think they are all too fast for the street anyway.

 

OK this thread now become now just sad. Lots of Ferrari driver here who never even go 100mph in life, hehe US slo slo highways and pothole road and read car magazine to think they are expert

458 is good car and yes accelerate and straight line very fast, but Scuderia with proper tires(NOT **** PIRELLI) is faster on any track in world ok?

If want argue please only those post who have good info like F430GT, rest are argue like children....

458 better for street and average owner no doubt, 430 scud just better Ferrari. End of story.

 

End of story in your opinion. I have driven my 458 at significant speeds thank you very much, so please don't assume you know how I drive my 458 in the US. You don't. This thread is getting as bad as the Mac 12 C vs 458 thread. Go enjoy your ferrari and let us enjoy ours. How's that. I don't appreciate being called a child either.

 

I've been to Singapore. It's about the size of Manhattan and the cars go just about as fast.

From Wikipedia:

The default speed limit and National Speed Limits on Singapore expressways is 90 km/h (56 mph), but in certain areas a lower speed limit such as 80 km/h (50 mph) or 70 km/h (43 mph) is applied, especially in large urban areas, tunnels, heavy traffic and crosswinds. Speed traps are also deployed by the Singapore police at many places along the expressways.

 

AND THE 458 SUX.



Not really.. just thought I could really get some emotions flowing


Really guys, they are both great cars and if you own either, count your lucky stars cause plenty just dream about it.

 

I am buying a scuderia , but have a lot of respect for 458 . It is a fantastic achievement by ferrari, dont understand why all this bashing of 458 by scud owners. To me they are different cars just like lambo and ferrari , just different cars for for different audiences.


Ming if you hate your 458 so much , sell the damn car soon and buy a scud. End of story.

 

The biggest weakness of the 458 is that the chassis should have been made out of carbon fiber, not aluminum.

The 360/430 chassis, being made of aluminium, constituted a quantum leap over their predecessor, the 355. The 458 is not the same leap forward because it is heavier than the 360 or 430 and overcomes this disadvantage with a brute force solution of a bigger engine. The Scud, being lighter is a more elegant solution.

This is why we are having this debate and why the answer is not obvious. It should be. My guess is that the 458 successor will be a carbon fiber chassis and will be that car that is seen as the next generation.

 

You all wrong!

Banana beats apple and orange both.

besides facts...any comments like apple is better than banana is just pointless!

 

Why do you say that? Sorry I don't agree at all. It's not the sum of it's parts. It's what it was designed to do what matters. I couldn't care if the chassis was made from plywood and chewing gum as long as it works the way it does.

The problem some Scud owners have with the 458 is they can't get it through there heads that yes... like a Porsche ... you can actually drive this thing to work everyday and that someone would actually want to do that.

SACRILEGE! The dawn of the "no excuses" Ferrari strikes to the heart of "to really love it, you must suffer!". You're not a real enthusiast unless your ears bleed, the fillings in your teeth are loose, and your back is sore after a drive around your favorite back road.

For 300 grand, I expect more for my money than a weekend warrior. The days of the 5 year old, 1000 mile cars on Ebay are thankfully over thanks to the 458. And, we are all better off because of it.

After all, isn't DRIVING it more important than saying you do?

There's not wrong with the Scud. For some, its a great car and I can see the appeal. But, because 458's sell for a lot more when a lot of almost new Scuds sell for a lot less should give you somewhat of an understanding where the market really is. If it were that great an that appealing to most people, it should sell for MORE, don't you think? I would.

All this will be tossed away as soon as they build the Scud version of the 458. Then, when you compare apples to apples two track-like sports cars, the 458 will win easily and the argument will finally end.

So, buy a 458 if you want the best daily driver sportscar in the world. Buy a Scud if you want less than a GT and more of that raw race-track like feel.

So simple. What it's made of has nothing to do with either.

 

The best post of this whole messy thread!

 

And what would you say it was "designed to do"?

And why would it be a bad thing for it to perform better? Carbon would perform better than the aluminum. So your opinion is that you don't care if it performs better. I think most owners would not share your belief....

 

What are you talking about. It performs great. How many people in the world have to drive it and say it's a great performing car before you might agree with them?

Anyone who says they think the 458 doesn't have the performance to meet their expectations, please raise your hand....

I don't see any.

I don't buy the "carbon tub makes a better car" theory. I buy the "car makes a better car" theory.

What do buy is the "carbon tub makes a great marketing statement".

People say the F40 is probably the best of the modern cars. Yet, it goes against conventional "Ferrari" thinking in that it has a turbo. It's not the turbo that makes the F40 so great. It's the CAR'S overall package for what it was intended to do that makes it great. It's parts are only "parts". What the final package does with all those parts makes it exceptional.

 

And guess what: the f40/f50 was Ferrari's first carbon fiber tub. That plus the turbo made for the "package" of which you speak.

You're missing the point by saying the car is "great" (to use your terminology). My question to you is why would it be wrong for it to be "greater"?

You don't see these debates about the 355 to 360/430 or from the 288GTO to the F40 however you do see questions about the 458 vs. the Scud with very valid arguments for a reason: the 458 is an intermediate step towards the car that realizes the full potential of that design.

 

240 posts!!! It is like two guys aruging over the size and shape of their penis . If you get laid enough the discussion becomes academic, otherwise, it never ends. Inadequacy is inadequacy no matter the topic. Best

 

Respectfully, I don't think it's a debate anymore just a trade of heated diatribes that's starting to devalue this thread.

I don't recall anyone from the 458 fraternity posting disparaging comments under the 360/430 section shooting down the Scuderia.

Most of us have a deep appreciation as past owners of a 430's or Scud's and still do hold them in high regard, but those of us lucky to own a 458 certainly understand how Ferrari have moved the bar and we are thankful for it.

And they are going to move the bar again, Ferrari CEO - Amadeo Felisa is on the record saying that a road version of the 458 Challenge will have the following performance specs:

450kW of power - up 25 kW

70kgs lighter over stock 458 Italia

0-100km/h in 3 secs.

 

Well, mine is bigger and better. We can end that argument now.

If it had a carbon tub, all we would be doing is arguing the strengths and weakenesses of that move. The subject of what makes a great car never changes because we all have an opinion as to what "a great car" means.

The argument "it could be better" doesn't hold water. Sure, if it had a 1200 hp V12, it would be much better. So what? Why not 1400 hp?

To get back to the story, the Scud is rougher and people like it that way and the 458 is smoother and people like it that way.

To be honest, they are both right because what's right for you (the owner) is all that matters.

 

Whatever you are using or driving enjoy the "ride" - Best

 

Congratulations. You have found the fastest ever test of 430 Scuderia and the very slowest one of 458 Italia. Apples and oranges. MotorTrend tested well prepared and broken-in european press car in case of 430 Scuderia on european soil. The 458 was US customer car tested in US. For some reason, Ferraris in US are always slower. AFAIK US-versions have less power and slightly more weight. Also conditions play a huge role and crap US fuel as well.

If we compare comparable, same mags testing in europe, here are the results/hard data you wanted :

Quattroruote IT :
0-200 km/h Scuderia - 11,0s
0-200 km/h Italia - 9,7s

Auto IT :
0-200 km/h Scuderia - 11,0s
0-200 km/h Italia - 9,5s

Sport Auto FR :
0-200 km/h Scuderia - 11,0s
0-200 km/h Italia - 9,2s

At higher speeds the difference is considerable :

0-1000m in Auto :
Scuderia - 20,4s @ 257 km/h
Italia - 19,7s @ 270 km/h

Just a few examples.

In Automobile magazine, 458 tested in europe did 1/4mile in 10,9s @ 134 mph. Car and Driver did 11,0s@131 mph. Figures Scuderia can only dream of.

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1008_ferrari_458_italia_test/viewall.html
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2011-ferrari-458-italia-vs-2012-mclaren-mp4-12c-2011-porsche-911-gt2-rs-video

The 458 vs Cobra comparison you mention took place in conditions far from ideal. The same 458 did 11,2@132mph brand new on another drag strip. Do you have time slips for Scuderia better than this ?

Scuderia is awesome piece of kit. But performance wise, 458 is another league in the straight line, especially at higher speeds, and as fast or even slightly faster with new SS tires on a track. Durability on a track due to weight might be another story though.

 

Anyone know where the Energizer Bunny may be found, we have a contestant in the making here (just keeps running and running). Best

 

I think these figures are off......
My ultimate sensitive butt dyno shows it is at least 0.0005 second off these number, and my undersized balls G force sensor also showing one of it is pulling at least 0.00001 G because it is hanging more left when cornering by at least 1 hair.

it looks like both cars has something the other car doesn't have (ie. luxury vs rawness), after 7 pages I still can't figure it out why I should compare them because to me is quite hard to replace it with each other.

 

Haha! I love it!

First fruit and now butts and balls!

 

i cant believe this many posts and nobody post pictures??!!!

ok, here is my red scud and my white 458. both winners!

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/rennpository-video-clips-and-other-in-line-videos/535871-my-scud.html

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/rennpository-video-clips-and-other-in-line-videos/619201-matt-458-a.html

 

I LOVE that interior!