FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO DE ESPAÑA SANTANDER 2012: RACE *** SPOILERS ***

Stewards penalized him 5-spot for next race..

As some were saying it was Shu's fault

 

Fair enough.

No doubt in my mind it was his fault. You hit someone up the arse, it's always your fault!

Cheers,
Ian

 

Do we know it was a KERS explosion?

Maybe someone decided to, oh, I dunno, let off some celebratory firecrackers after all this time......

Hopefully nobody's badly hurt.

What a way to put a damper on their finest hour for many years

Cheers,
Ian

 

Couldn't agree more. Power to those who created a better Pirelli divining rod. If money is less a determining factor, all the better.
Prost and Senna were fantastic but it wasn't any fun to watch them walk away from the field all season long. Same applies for 2004. Abominable.

Btw Ian, he's an easy one; the Rev. .....

 

Oh my! I've now scanned back a few pages and have to note;

- ALMS / Le Mans is "pure" racing? You gotta be kidding, right?! You want to experience "diddling" with the rules, then that's the place to go. Very few manufacturers going head to head and a bunch of customer cars which get weight / air penalties if they're too quick - Sometimes on a race by race basis.

- F1 (almost) NEVER changes it's rules during a season. They tweak 'em year on year, but that's it.

- Pirelli (who seem to be the whipping boy right now) are simply doing what the TEAMS (not the FIA or Bernie) asked them to do. Same for all.

- 5 different *constructors*! - This is the key for me at least - You can't go buy your "race prepped car" from, probably, Porsche and "do a Level 5" with it. You've gotta design and build it yourself - That they're pretty much all within a couple of seconds of each other over a 100 second lap is a great thing IMO.

This is shaping up to be one of the most wide open seasons in a long time - What the hell is wrong with that?

Cheers,
Ian

 

Definitely!

 

Good point - I hadn't even thought about it decreasing the importance of budget

A few years ago, it all sucked because <insert engine supplier of choice> had more power than anyone else.

Or, it sucked because aero's too important.

Or, it sucked because <insert team here> is too good.

Or, it sucked because of Mad Max manipulation. (+1 on that one btw!)

Now it sucks becasue they need a Pirelli divining rod - Which doesn't even work consistently between the same two cars! I'm lovin' it!

Pirelli gave 'em what they wanted, the playing field appears more level than ever, and it *still* sucks! Dayum.....

You are good!..... We'll let the drama's die down for a day or so then start an "Isobel translation" thread

Cheers,
Ian

 

Ridiculous audacity of that rookie/bum/pay driver taking his line and establishing the braking point simply because he was in front.

Nico up a few points this race but Kimi had quite the race. We're static on our bet...

 

Initial reports were that it was a KERS related fire. I haven't heard any more.

I wouldn't be so fast to put the Pirelli situation on the teams. I doubt that they came up with the concept and have little doubt that they weren't encouraged to accept it. In any case as it has manifested itself few if any are happy with it now.
The organizers bear the ultimate responsibility.

There is no doubt that it was an exciting race and a thrilling championship so far. But is a contrived one. It would be nice if there were some arena where a fan could enjoy something close to real sport. But that's not today's world. If the Olympics can't escape it, F1 stands little chance.
That doesn't mean the fans have to accept it silently though.

 

Rules and limits are inherently make something contrived.

 

A fictional world is always better for some. But I prefer reality even if one guy wins all the races. He can do that because he is the BEST. The simple facts are that we will NEVER know who the best driver or best team is anymore. Its now all a manufactured SHOW. If thats what you prefer then good for you. Unfortunately there are more and more people in this world that like to lay back and be entertained even if its manufactured.

 

Whats wrong with that? Its a lie thats whats wrong!

 

Latest word indicates that it was a fuel rig problem, unrelated to the race car.

 

And that's a reason to abandon any attempt at fair competition?
Might as well just give up on life.

Why is that so hard to understand?
Are we so desensitized that we need such artiface to keep our attention?

No matter how sweet the perfume there's no hiding the stink.

 

Thanks.

 

Originally Posted by DF1:
--Rules and limits are inherently make something contrived.--

VIZLA--
And that's a reason to abandon any attempt at fair competition?
Might as well just give up on life.


Who said we should abandon any attempt at fairness. Seriously there is little implication of that by me LOL! We live and use rules to our advantage. Sport or life etc. Many like the racing many dont and thats news to you??? Try search here and see if you find F1 nirvana. Good luck.

 

Maybe I misunderstood. If so I appologize.
There are rules that respect and foster true competition by evening the playing field and there are rules that inject large elements of chance. What we're seeing in today's F1 is the latter.

 

We are at the mercy of the economic benefactors of our beloved racing series. I hope they correct what they can for fairness to prevail. I will keep watching flawed as I may be.

 

"Economic benefactors"
Almost Orwellian Newspeak.
Those benefactors are not there for our benefit. Nor for the benefit of the sport.
They are there there to make Bernie & Co rich. They looking out for you the way a rancher looks after his cattle.

And as they used to say "the wheel may be fixed but it's the only game in town".
Or In the words of Texas Guinan "hello suckers".

 

No doubt it was Schu's fault, but this would not have happened had Senna just been a bit more professional and established his position and remained there. Schu was just a bit too aggressive with him. I hope Schu retires. This F1 is not fitting for him and his aggression.

 

I beg to differ. I don't subscribe to Autosport online otherwise I'd go back and dig up what they (the teams & Pirelli) were saying at the end of last year (young driver / new tire test) and into testing this season - Everyone was happy with the tires. Again, I honestly don't believe anyone can lay this at the FIA' or Bernies feet - The TWG told Pirelli want they wanted, and Pirelli has delivered. And again, it's the same for everyone, so where's anything contrived about that?

Now, I could argue that the tires are indeed too important, but that just makes a change from aero or power or whatever else being "too important" - Once it became apparent Clifford sucked in the aero department even LdM whined that "aero is too important" - Think he'd been saying that if the car was the quickest? As you like to say, depends on who's ox is being gored.... And right now, seems they're all gonna get their turn in the sun / have their ox gored depending upon ability to get on top of the tires better than the next guy - And said success varies from race to race. A fantastic challenge to some of the very best - Nothing contrived about it at all IMO. Just the way it is.

Whoa! Hang on a gosh darn minute!..... You're claiming the Olympics are now contrived? Nothing could be further from the truth IMO - They remain the purest mano et mano competition on the planet - You win Gold, you're the fastest / strongest / etc of all.

Sure, they're now very *professional*, but that's a long way from contrived.

Even the mighty NFL is somewhat contrived - You have a good season, your schedule next is tough - I have no problem with that. The EPL is contrived because you've gotta be the best to stay in it? We beg to differ

/Hijack - We should probably continue this debate down in the Sports forum - I'll start a thread for comments on this shortly....

Cheers,
Ian

 

A tad harsh.
One the one hand you'd expect more from a driver with Michael's experience on the other hand he wouldn't be Michael if the competitive urges didn't take over now and again.

 

Rules that add randomness are counterproductive to fair competition.
Send me a link to,the new thread please.

 

The rules are the same for everyone.

Therefore the results are not contrived.

They are much less contrived than when the rules allowed for one team to have a bespoke tire manufacturer which allowed that team to dominate for years.

This is one of the best F1 seasons I can remember. Close racing and plenty of excellent results. And it has nothing to do with falsity or rules designed to screw anyone. It is 100% about how the teams do all under the *same* set of rules.

The only rule I think is a bit silly is the DRS one... but it turns out DRS is not an automatic way to pass someone. Sometimes it works, sometimes not - depends on lots of factors.

 

I did say at the time John..