Pre purchase inspection help

Check with Scuderia Rampante in Boulder.

Don't know if Dave and his people do PPI's, but they are highly skilled Ferrari mechanics.

 

There is no better person than Dave Helms at Scuderia Rampante for what you are seeking.

 

If Dave doesn't have time, call Ferrari of Denver. I think they still do them.

Dave

 

Sorry, I am out.

I rarely do PPI's these days. The new litigious mentality makes them an enormous liability with virtually no upside for the shop doing them...... the times have changed.

Choose wisely, they are worth exactly what you pay for them. There is no substitute for direct hands on experience with a given model..... interview with hard questions before making a decision. The owner of the "T" I have in the shop now, wishes he had done the same.

 

Oops,

Sorry Dave. I wasn't aware of your stance on this.

 

No insult of any kind intended, I just want folks to understand this from a shops perspective. For a few hundred dollars I get to:

*Disrupt the flow of work already scheduled and I am fortunate and grateful to already be very busy.
*Insult a local owner of a car, whom might be a current or future customer. Remember, our job is to point out every flaw, not to tell the buyer how pretty the paint is.
*For a buyer whom I will likely never see or do work for
*All at the risk of being called to the carpet on the Net... or sued, by folks that have little to no knowledge about the finite mechanics of a given model, if ANYTHING fails. In most instances these are "old" cars I guarantee WILL fail but many buyers now consider a PPI as an assurance all systems are well for an indefinite period of time.

Prospective buyers need only read the threads on this site about the buyers looking to sue the PPI tech for doing a poor job because something failed later down the road. The simple truth is it takes a solid day looking, testing and driving the cars to know what condition they Really are. I have no problem being held accountable for work I have done.... but for something that 'might happen' later....? I have not personally had any problems related to doing a PPI but...it is because of these threads that I no longer do the service. The anonymity the Net now provides has changed how folks deal with and speak to one another... just too volatile a situation for me. I consider it a damage control reaction, I need not look for ways to get in trouble.

One day we will figure out a way where there is a mutual benefit for everyone involved. This used to be a very valuable service for both the seller, the buyer and the shop. Yes, I read the email this weekend and I am very sorry I cant help with your quest. A nice "T" is a wonderful experience, I wish you the best with the quest.

 

It is...very hard to argue with this logic.

 

Dave your perspective comes out load and clear and in a very polite manner as usual.

 

Just a perspective from another view point.

There is a cost related to the banter on the net, few are doing these anymore.

 

Its sad to see it come to this, but unfortunately Dave has a point as far as the risk not worth the reward.

Take your PPI to the Ferrari dealership, they have deep pockets and don't care if you sue them!

But there's got to be a win/win scenario here guys, maybe the buyer signs a disclosure agreeing not to sue and only take the advice given for a PPI for informational purposes only as alot of these things are not for seeable.

tricky!

 

Somehow people who do home inspections have managed to limit their liability to refunding the cost of the inspection should there be any dispute with the future owner of the property. I.e., if something is missed in the inspection.

 

Ppi I no longer do, except for select customers. Been burned once and that was enough. If I do, there is no charge and no invoice. No chance at being sued. V

 

Court action is actually the last of my concerns, I can prove out any point required to remove the liability. Wasting the time to do so.... that is an entirely different topic and that cost would need to be put into the check out charges. You can sue a Ham sandwich for being stale.... but who pays? The cost to maintain a business in this market is already absurd and is reflected in the hourly charges.... we need not find ways to make it more expensive yet!

It is the potential bashing on the Net by so called experts who don't know which end of the car is dangerous, you cant defend against Stupid. Anyone with a bad attitude, buyers remorse... you name it... is allowed to blame anyone but themselves for getting a bad car. There are threads on here where this turned into Mob Mentality and went on for 12 pages. The rants covered everyone from the initial PPI shop, up to and including each mechanic / shop who touched the car after the fact. The worst part... I followed the thread closely and my instinct says the guilty party had no blame placed on them, it went on everyone else who I believe was innocent of any wrong doing. It is this second point that needs to be addressed, as there is no defense against it. Folks are free to speak their feelings regardless if they are based on fact or fiction. In today's world of "Words mean what I say they mean"... Facts have little place in many of these conversations on the Net and there is no defense that can be put up against it.... guilty until proven innocent.

Monkey makes another excellent point... wiper blades are checked but compression isn't... Really? There are but a small handful of tech's that fully understand most of all failure points on these cars, many of which are never yet spoken of on here. No knowledge of the problems... no knowledge of what or how to check it. There is no standard in place, and until there is..... this will never get fixed. I tried in 3 threads to get a list of what is included in a Major Service... couldn't even accomplish that! ...and all of this nonsense for a few hundred dollars, a price the group decided was enough for the job, most of which goes to covering overhead..... ah, NO. The core problem needs to be fixed, then we can get to work saving potential owners from problem cars.

 

The sad thing is stopping this kind of service and then have people *****ing you out for not providing a service that can harm you, and makes no financial sense to do.

 

Good summary and viewpoint. It's a buyer beware world and as these cars continue to age there will be problems. My perspective is that a PPI would service no purpose to me as a seller based on setting a price that I feel is fair. A list of items would not alter my selling price.

 

Dave, I understand your point. Please understand mine: I do business with those that help me. I don't do business with people that don't. While your point makes very good short term economic sense, it doesn't long term. When I get my F40 next your, your aren't going to see it, I suspect.

Art

 

Wow...

How convenient to be able to choose who to do business with. I don't have that luxury.

Sometimes I end up doing business with a dickhead and then being sued by an attorney that represents that dickhead.

 

I'm sure the shop above would do a PPI for someone he knows and or someone he'd get repeat business from?

It's still worth getting a PPI done as part of the due diligence. Nothing beats getting out and eyeballing the car, driving it and checking out the seller yourself. Most PPI's I've had done you can take with a grain of salt. Stuff was missed or the guy ended up scaring me off the car, right or wrong. They can represent a good negotiating tool as sellers seem to think their cars are better than they are so a PPI gives them a reality check of what's really wrong and that can be reflected in the price. Hopefully the dealer will help you with the car. GL.

 

Having practiced law for almost 40 years I get more cases than I can handle, so I'm very selective in what I take. When it comes to autos I use the same people who service the car when I'm looking for something new. I realize in today's world loyalty is a forgotten term, but it might explain why you get sued and I don't.

Art

 

Art, Dave is very willing to do business with people he's just not willing to assume all the risk when it should be yours (as the buyer). When I bought my 360 two years ago I had a PPI done in CA before shipping it to CO. Once it arrived in CO I took it to Dave and he inspected it and told me what was wrong with it (for a very reasonable price). It wasn't a PPI, I had already bought the car, it was simply me paying Dave to give me his opinion on a car that I already owned at that point. I paid for a second opinion and for my own peace of mind, and that's what I got. Oh, and I didn't sue the guy who did the PPI for the stuff that he missed either (I didn't even tell him).

When you buy a used car you are taking a risk. If you don't want to assume that risk then you should only buy new. A PPI doesn't remove the risk it merely mitigates it. Once people start to understand that then more people may be willing to do PPI's. The problem is, that's never going to happen.

 

Although it has never been mentioned to me, that must be it. Thank you for the advice. I'll try being more loyal down the road.

Just out of curiosity, have you ever represented someone who is a known dickhead? I mean, someone you knew was a self serving, egotistical tool, who just liked to flex his wallet and show off with an attorney.

 

I question whether your "loyalty" has anything to do with the fact that nobody has tagged you yet with a successful malpractice suit; rather, it may have more to do with your admission that "I'm very selective in what I take."

Are you seriously arguing that it is OK for you to be selective, but not for a Ferrari mechanic?

There's a word for that ...

 

I was trying to understand the points made... and found myself asking the same question.

Please explain Art, I truly did not understand the reply