A/C R12 conversion to 134a on Mondial

My AC is blowing just air, I think my R12 needs recharging but its just a pain to fine an authorized place that does this. I know R12 is way cooler than 134a, but I want the ability to do a recharge myself with a gauge kit for 134a refill. I found this conversion kit that has everything I need to do this conversion (134a adapter, 3 cans of refrigerant oil, gauge, convert label). But before I start, I need to take the car to a place that can extract the remaining R12 refrigerant, when its out and pressure is gone, then I can start refilling the 134a refrigerant. I have to locate the Low-Side Port, any one ever done this themselves successfully?

A quick search reveals a big debate on whether to do or not to do:
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324716&highlight=134a+conversion

Should I return the kit and just stick with R12, lets start the view points ?
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Well, Michael did the conversion on my t coupe, and it seems to be working well. The air is cold, although the outer vents don't have a lot of force. But the center vents seem to be working well enough. It will get a solid test this summer in south Florida.

As to conversion, I think you need to swap out the dryer also. Because the molecules of the two refrigerants are different, some think most of the o rings should be swapped out on other system components.

Here is just one site that talks about what needs to be done for the swap over:

http://autoacrepairs.com/134aConversion.htm

In my opinion, if you want to do it correctly, you might consider doing other components too because of the difference between the two types of refrigerant. But over the long haul, you will probably have a better result.

BTW, my mechanic has no problem getting R12, he said the price has actually stabilized because people stocked up years ago and the demand has fallen as older R12 cars are taken off the road and replaced with newer cars using R134a. Seriously consider finding/repairing the leak and refilling with R12 and measure the cost against a proper conversion. If R12 gets too scarce, you can always do the conversion later. Just IMHO.

Regards,
Jerry

 

Mike, I did my 308 last year and have had no problems. My system was empty since a long time so I replaced the dryer before I did the refill. I added just a bit of r-134 oil and the o-rings just to be safe. I vacuumed the system and checked for leaks and everything was fine. Filled it and it work just fine for the entire summer. My experience was conclusive.

 

My QV is converted too; the seals, dryer and compressor oil needed to replaced to be compatible with R134a. The air exit temperatur inside the center vent is as low as possible without freezing. The main issue is the (relative to new cars) lack of fan power to move enough air through the car, and generally speaking, the system's small dimensioning leading to medium cooling power in hot weather - especially when not moving: the condenser fan cannot remove enough heat and the system will temporarily shut down until the system pressure drops below max level. Also, make sure the compressor belt is new and tight - slight slip will lead to failure and when that happens, it usually takes the nearby alternator/water pump belt with it > towing...

 

I wish I could add more practical experience but with not experiencing it yet, all I can add is that mine was converted, i had to purchase a new compressor, repair the condenser and some hoses, I look forward to feeling the cold air, I just hope it all works.

 

This somthing I need to do also but on my last major the compressor revealed that the compressor, is leaking at he seal.

I had read a few posts and I think anew compressor would be cheaper then a rebuild. Then convert to 134a. The compressor is a sandem type and easily available.

Anybody try a rebuild?


This also not a big deal for me because I mostly drive top down. But I will do it just to have the car in tip top shape.


Lino

 

Thanks everyone, I will call around tomorrow for a R12 authorized place to see what they say. I would rather convert now then later, don't want to deal with it next year.

 

How much did this kit cost Mike?

 

it was $39.95 from my local Walmart.
comes with a video, seems very simple. but I may need a new 134a A/C dryer for my car.

 

Amazing that it is so cheap!

 

Its a bargain if it does the trick, verdict is still out as I have not done anything with it yet. I have to find a R12 place to extract my existing refrigerant out first, and I'm not sure if my current dryer can handle the 134a oils or if I definitely will need a new dryer for my 3.2 (dryer = $250 bucks).

btw, the video from this kit is on Youtube: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q0sMQJre60[/ame]

 

Mike check for aftermarket dryer. The one I installed on my 308 was listed for a Kia or Hyunday. Not the perfect size but fit there with all the correct connection and it work perfect. I search on aftermarket listings and found it for application of 308 Ferrari. Cost was around $35.

 

Thanks Claude, I will search for aftermarket dryers and see what the differences are.

Mike

 

You can have your dryer rebuilt for aroung $100.00. Freon is out there and really not that hard to find. My car needed charged so when I had it done I sent my dryer sent to a restoration shop and had it rebuilt. . The freon that I am getting is made in Mexico by Dupont. I'll try to find the name of the shop that did my dryer. They send me e-mails about once a month. MM

 

As your car is blowing warm air there was a failure that let the freon out. If tight the systems last for many years. My 8 year old truck has never been service for a/c and works great. My Dad had a 15 year old truck that the a/c worked great. Now is a good time to repair it thoroughly and not have to worry about it for a while. Unfortunately the kit you got will only buy you a short time. I understand the drier pulls moisture out of the system and once open to atmospheric conditions will go bad. Typically these are replaced when major work is performed. Everyone else has hit the high points, seals, etc. I've also heard stories of replacing the expansion valve but i don't know that much about a/c systems.

I'm a couple years out on repairing mine. I figure when i do it I'll probably have the lines renewed as well. It's all getting awfully old.

 

Thanks Dirk. Unfortunately when I bought my car, the AC was not blowing cold either so I do not know for how long its been bad. This morning I called around looking for places that service R12 and no one seems to have a recovery system or handles R12 recharging. One guy told me that only dealers can do this work, so I have to call FOW tomorrow.

I did not realize it was so hard to get any kind of service on R12 systems. I just hate taking my car in anywhere because I'll never get it back anytime soon!!! Still investigating but AC for me is like the rear windows, not that important -just need to get it sorted at some point.

 

What ever gave you this idea?

 

I suggest you make an appt with a trusted mechanic for January to get this fixed

 

ROFLMAO!


@ Mike:

I don't know why you are having a hard time finding an AC shop to handle R12. I have 2 here, the guy that works on the race car, and one of my regular mechanics, who has a 3 bay service shop, specializing in Euro cars. 10 years MB Master Tech, 20 years in business for himself. R12 comes in big cans, looks like a propane cannister.

Maybe time for a road trip here?? I can hook you up!!LOL Any decent AC repair/rebuild shop should be able to do this and if you need new parts, should be able to match up what you have when he removes the old part (dryer, expansion valve, etc). These are not purpose built for Ferrari.

Regards,
Jerry

 

...I think you meant if I make an appointment now and bring it in, I won't get my car back until January ? lol

 

Thanks Jerry, I'm still calling around but things are more laxed in FL.
Its not 90 out side yet and I won't need AC for a while.

 

I'll keep the beer chilled in case you change your mind!

Regards,
Jerry

 

Found this great write up, my car should be a very similar setup. Man did summer hit, its 90+ today, have to leave Ferrari in the garage until evening hours.

Ferrari 328 A/C System Inspection, Leak Detection, Compressor Seal Replacement, & Recharge

by Carl Rose
November 2003/revised June 2004

http://ferrari.cdyn.com/carl_rose_docs/Ferrari%20328%20AC%20Recharge.pdf

 

The low side port is the larger pipe/tube/hose in the system.

The port fittings on the gauge set or refrigerant supply service can/canister may be/probably are the same size, but the suction/gas side pipe/tube/hose/compressor fitting is larger than the liquid pipe/tube/hose.

Larger compressor fitting/port is low pressure gas (physical state of refrigerant) side coming from the evaporator, going to the compressor intake = suction gas side

Smaller compressor fitting/port is high pressure gas = compressed high temperature gas from compressor going to the condenser.

Refrigerant is/should be liquid (ie: no bubbles in the sight glass) between condenser and expansion valve.

DRG

 

Good stuff, thanks Jerry. I'll start looking at this stuff when I have more time.
May need a new compressor and drier to convert to 134a the right way but that's expensive on a Ferrari!