VECTOR cars!

Road & Track had some good articles about the W8. Keep in mind that the M12 is a completely different car & used nothing from the original except a front crossmember & the air conditioning. (from what I've read) The M12 was kind of based on the diablo with a Vector WX-3 looking fiberglass body. It used the V12 & a getrag 5 spd forcing a longer car with cramped interior. I personally don't consider them "real" vectors since they weren't built with the same philosophy as the other cars. Build quality was terrible. They are a good looking car with performance similar to a Diablo tho...
BTW, the M12's are not included in the W8 #'s I think there were around 20 or so of those built...

 

Nope.

 

Interesting that all the cars had the HUD control knob...

 

Controlled the brightness of the ELD

 

Just dug this out of the closet... From the 1991 Los Angeles Auto Show booklet:
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I thought that had its own dimmer switch on the other side..? Near the cruise control? I can't be sure, I've never actually seen one in person

 

now I'm doubting myself...

http://nthimage.com/Detroit/photoshoots/Vector_W8_15_S2/Vector_W8_int_1.jpg
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Yea, I'm not sure what's exactly what...
Do you know what the power button is, next to the manual fan control?

 

Ever since my renewed vigor in researching Vector cars, I've been also reading up on other cars that normally I've only had a passing interest in.
I've found very many parallels between Vector & Pagani. Although they are different from a design & philosophy standpoint, they both are leaders in high precision manufacturing of very unique high performance cars. Both had the concept for the cars many years ahead of actually going into production. Both have the latest technology incorporated into their designs, using the finest materials. Both also seem to have similar production #'s (from what can be compared) Both cars are (were) highly praised in automotive media (of their time) Both also have a love it or hate it design & look about them...
While Pagani got started using government grants, Vector needed to seek out investors. It would be interesting to see what would happen if Pagani had needed to rely on investors to begin production, & then had those investors try to take over his company. Would Pagani suffer the same fate & poor reputation years later?
Just a random thought I guess...
Just so many similarities between the two cars even though they are so different at the same time.

 

That is a VERY interesting thought. I have a theory that a lot of people mostly hear about the successful companies (GM, Ferrari, BMW), and they take them for granted. If a company fails or is fairly obscure, they think, it must not be any good. I once posted a brand new car from a barely known company on a forum, and people started bashing it. One person said, "This is a car enthusiast forum. If the car was any good, we probably would have heard if it."

Chris

 

I suspect your comment is correct except for the very expensive cars like Bulgati ( however it spelled ) and Mosler etc.

Lee

 

In the case of the Vector M12, the quality of the car's myth streatches into the original history... it was so bad, that people assume the W8 was as well. One of the other issues is that several well known and seen W8's over the years were natoriously seen on the side of the road, or not anywhere near up to par with how the car was built by the factory.

IE White #8 had an off road excursion that wasn't repaired until the mid 2000's.

The Agassi car was well known to have been "Terrible" because Agassi said it was, even though he knew he was driving an unfinished car in the desert

Yellow # 12 was modified by a dying man who wanted the fastest car in the world, and took it to a porsche tuner. Even if it did accelerate faster; it's top speed is gear limited.... and would foul out the plugs quite quickly. When it sold to another man (on this forum), he spent a fortune to get it repaired by his own shop (as I understand it)... It never ran right; even if it did run "better"; as witnessed by Brian Zuk's video "Ride Rev Accelerate".

There were also a few magazine articles where an air bubble in the coolant system caused the W2 prototype to overheat. That didn't help the press either.

 

Geez, they had the worst luck.

Chris

 

Do you or anyone else know the manufacuter of the 8 cylinder car?

Lee

 

Jerry's old business card when the company was Vehicle Design Force

If you remember the Wet Bike, later called the Jet Bike; that was Jerry's too.

The car? The engine?
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Very interesting comparison. I'd say the largest factor behind both of these companies is the man behind everything. I've met Mr Wiegert several times and was fortunate enough to meet Mr Pagani himself, and what I can tell you is that man driving the company is a huge influential factor.

Wiegert is a certainly a car guy and a gear head, and is similar to Leno in that he appreciates design but also loves getting under the hood himself. As a designer, I'd say he's brilliant in his own right had had a lot a great concepts and ideas. However, as a business man, he tends to carry himself with a sense un-earned arrogance. I am all for having confidence in your product and standing by it, but being hyper secretive and never letting anyone test your product doesn't help make you legitimate, especially if you're claiming to be building the fastest car out there. Maybe starting a car company straight out of art school wasn't the wisest idea, but he had the balls to do it and I solute him for that.

Pagani on the other hand worked for Lamborghini for 20 years in their advanced composites division, and had drawn up the designs for the C12 back in 1988. He then went out on his own to start building cars the way he wanted to. The big differentiating factor, to me at least, that puts Pagani ahead of companies like Vector, Koenigsegg, or even Gumpart is that Pagani understands the "mindset" of what a supercar is, that's why he consistently "get's it right." He carries himself with a sense of humility and "my work speaks for itself," where as Weigert is more "I'm the best and you just don't realize it yet." Whenever a journalist came to test a car, instead of being shunned, Pagani will personally inspect every inch of the test car himself before sending the journalist off.

A lot of times the man behind the vision has a large influence in how things play out, and I think especially in this example, the men behind the machines had a large influence. I have been fortunate enough to meet both men and see their work up close and personal, and their cars I thing are highly reflective of the men behind them. I do think that Vector did get a bit of an unfair wrap in the press, however looking back, there's a lot of factors that make sense.

(And for those of you you need some proof or just like cool pics)

Me in the Vector WX-3 Avtech:




Me checking out the Pagani Zonda R and meeting Mr. Pagani:

 

Well, I'm not sure if these couple W8's issues contributed to the bad rep the cars have now. I think its mainly due to the cars never being allowed a top speed test & to Jerry's somewhat brash personality (calling everything else 'some junk from Italy or Germany')
The biggest factor may be the M12's tarnishing Vector as a whole, although some seem to believe these are the "good" cars! Another thing is that by the time they finally started production (after years of production being claimed as imminent) they only built a small number of cars. Few people realise that this is due to MT's hostile takeover. Most assume that since so few were built that they must not be any good, when the truth has more to do with the legal battle with MT. Jerry had his designs copyrighted & therefore they couldn't be further produced.
I certainly dont have every mag article written, but I could only find one with a poor test & overheating. Car & Driver, May 1991. They drove both preproduction cars, & both had problems. The red car had transmission problems right away, so then they drove the gray car. It overheated but they did finally get it sorted out. Testing resulted in 0.91 g in the wet, 0-60 in 3.8 sec, & 1/4 mile in 12.0 sec @ 118 mph. However, the rev limiter was hitting early (well short of the 7000 rpm redline) That car refused to shift into 3rd gear. The cars were still praised for their high quality, fit & finish.
Again, these were reproduction cars & probably beaten during testing.
-so, I'm curious as to how a company such as Pagani would be remembered if right when they got started producing cars, they were taken over by an outside investor. Would Horacio fight to keep the company & his designs? Would his cars then be remembered as poorly?
I personally am not a fan of the Pagani cars, basically just due to styling...but I have a lot of respect for them. I just wish Vector received the respect they deserve.

 

I agree with these points also. I'm trying to find examples of bad press about the Vector but there isn't really much out there. I haven't yet read the autoweek "peter pan" one yet tho. Vector also was quite transparent to visiting journalists, giving them very long tours & going over everything in detail. Main issue I think, was not allowing top speed tests (leading to the question of why?)
I believe a lot of their problems were simply not having the funds to achieve their goals. While Jerry isn't credited with being the best businessman, Vector did do a lot with very little money.
I'm still looking for info on the MT takeover, as I don't understand them firing everybody & returning all current deposits, even if they did have problems with Jerry. Imagine if they had done that to Lamborghini...

Great pictures BTW!

 

Look at Saleen for an example of investors taking over. The difference... Those investors were business savvy, and not crooks. Steve Saleen was ousted; and only just recently regained the rights to use the Saleen name recently... but I don't think he will ever recover to where he was 7 years ago. Just over 80 race and street S7's were built... they had hoped to build 400 I think.

Also, I can't recall much in the area of top speed tests in the F40, XJ220, EB110 or McLaren F1. Although, a couple of those had video/press for a publicized running to top end.

Something to concider... for $30 million, Vector built 22 cars. Bugatti built just one car for that cost.. (EB110).

 

that was a curious thing, i still don't know why the shareholders would grenade the business in such a way, especially when the face of the company is based so heavily on the man ...perhaps they thought he wasn't generating as much ROI as should/could have??

the vector "could" have been a decent product too, but destined to be another "bricklin" where speed in production = success

 

Can you clarify that last statement? Bugatti built over 100 EB110s, so not sure what you meant, as one car is not accurate.

 

Building the first EB110 cost about 30 million.

 

Even 30 million isn't a lot as far as developing a new car is concerned. I think Vector did a lot with what they had. The business side could have been managed better...
The car is still a great car, and think it should be remembered as such. I just don't understand the bashing it takes years later. It was ahead of anything else in terms of quality materials & performance in its time...

 

Lee Noble was also ousted by the investors, left and restarted his vision with the Fenix cars....( Henceforth I've turned downed every offer of investors and bit the bullet using up stock portfolio, 401, and selling off collector cars to finance and keep control of my "bespoke built" car project... but it's not about the money or how many built be it... 5 or 100... it's about being creative & "working with your hands, not turning it over to someone else to build...")
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Thanks!

Biggest problem is that none of this was ever truly tested. Vector is pretty similar to the Ferrari F50 in the sense that when they came out, the manufactures let the automotive media do everything but performance test the cars. Saying "We've built the best and fastest car ever...but you can't drive it" is a quick way to earn bad press. But I also think that a large factor for the negative image of Vector has a lot to do with the man behind the company. As the face of Vector, Wiergert did make a few enemies and a lot of times the negativity is more directed at him then the cars. A lot of people like the cars but aren't too fond of the founder, so the cars get the flak for it. He's a bit like Enzo Ferrari in the sense that he built cars the way he wanted and didn't car what anyone thought, which takes balls. I just hope there's a day when the cars can be properly tested and we can find out just how capable they really are.